cant quite get it right

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Botinok

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ok well iv been recording hip-hop for about three years now...iv tried various mixing techniques...but i just cant get it right...
i cant seem to make my vocals sit well on the mix. i usually dont add that many effects or anything..just open up the reverb....

i use a Shure sm7b, that goes through a dmp3 and then a dbx 160xt compressor

i think one of the problems might be my compressor settings..which is -20 threshold, 3:1 compression and +8 input gain...im not that comfortable with hardware compression yet so this might not be the best setting..

if u go to www.soundclick.com/botinok and listen to "witness" or "sickest state of mind" you can see what i mean..on witness i opened the ratio up alot more then usual so it kinda gave me that echoy sound...

any help would be appritiated..thanks!
 
Back off the Threshold until you're only getting about 6db of compression. Then adjust the gain so you have a good level on the recorder.

Try ditching the reverb and use delay instead. Get a single delay going and adjust the speed from about 20-100ms until it sounds big without being annoying. The longer the delay the bigger the effect. For a stereo effect have a seperate delay going L and R and have their speed differ by about 5-20ms. Then turn the delay volume down to where you can just barely hear it over the music.

Frequencies in the 1Khz to 3khz area are very important for vocals. Try playing with an EQ cut or boost there and see if it helps.
 
ill try the compresson and eqing..but im not sure what you mean about the delay..i use the plugin that comes with Audition..im not very familiar with dely...i know how it works and the theory behind it..but im not sure how to make a single delays...or how to adjust the speed...

any more info?

thanks for the advice!
 
No doubt an sm7 is a great mic, but a question you might ask yourself is if it is the right mic for your voice? I have found out that 90% of the time I have trouble with something in the mix, it goes back to the way I tracked it to begin with. Just some food for thought, I may be off in this instance.

I couldn't get your tunes to play, my line speed here at work is way down today, so I couldn't hear what you're sounding like. Ill try again tomorrow.
 
95% of what I do is Hip-Hop.

Honestly, your vocals sound like you're using a preset in Audition for your reverb. Presets don't work. They're nothing more than a starting point. You need to tweak the settings to fit your voice.

Also, it sounds as though you're recording your vocals over a stereo mixdown instrumental. If that's the case, you'll never get your vocals to sit correctly in the mix, as you don't have control over all elements within the mix.
 
i am recording overa stereo mixdown...but iv heard other peopls tracks come out sounding a lot better that also recorded on stereo mixdowns...i guess ill just keep trying..thanks guys!
 
If your mixing down on a instrumental. You might want to tried cut some frequency from 100-1300hz by a few db as this tends to be the area were vocals seem to fit best.

If the vocals are not bright enough you could boost frequency from 1300-4000hz or rolling off the low end start at 100hz or both.

You could also double up your vocal tracks to make your vocals sound bigger and wider.

Simply clone the vocal track. Put some compression on the first track and have it panning somewhere near the middle. The other track try putting a very slight chorusing effect with a small burst of reverb or short delay. Pan the track somewhere off centre not too extreme and bring it up so you can just hear it under the compress track.

If that doesn't help, don't stop trying!! :p
 
I can't listen right now, but here is an idea anyway.

try not to use the compressor as a pre-hard disk effect. If you can, set it up as an insert. If not, then use less compression and try to make sure your level is bouncing around the -18dB area while tracking (soooo important).

I like that delay suggestion ... I keep wanting to try it, but never have.
Using a good reverb will also help, andperhaps use it to sit in the background more than up front.
 
I listened to your tracks and I would suggest stepping up the quality of your preamp. The vocal punches in and out drastically which is inherent in low quality preamps. You need something that will let the lower midrange through and also has better transient response. That would be my call.

You should be OK with the rest of your setup if you plugged it into say a Great River or better an Avalon for this type of music. Try renting one of these first and see if that doesn't up your sound.

Another way to gel the vocal with the mix is to run everything through an aux buss, smashing the mix a little with a compressor, then bringing that in under your existing tracks.
 
lol i wish i could afford an avalon or great river....but for now this is what i got to work with..

i will try your guys suggestions with the eq'ing..see where that gets me...as far as the clonning..i already do that..

oh what can you elaberate on the sending the mix through the aux buss...i pretty much have no idea what you mean..lol..
 
First off, it sounds like you're distorting somewhere, so you're probably going to need to work out your gain-staging. I can't tell you how to do that withoug being there, but if you want to have me come down, I'm only a couple-hundred an hour. :D

Secondly, on the bottom of your mic are two switches. The one on the left is for bass rolloff. You'll want to move that in to the lower position. This should help out with the proximity issues I'm hearing in your sample.

And thirdly, I would remove the foam popper, and use a real windscreen. This should serve multiple purpose; It should help with the P's, could clear things up just a tad, and with the wind screen placed at least a few inches off, it should force you to back off the mic so you're not swallowing and eating it for dinner like I can tell you're doing in that clip.

Something to keep in mind with that mic: Learn your lyrics, because you need to be ON-AXIS with that mic at all times. Middleman said something kinda' weird about the preamp, but what I was hearing was your voice going off-axis from time-to-time on the mic; like you're not always right on it (perhaps looking away at a lyric sheet?). And unfortunately, that mic doesn't do the off-axis thing like an Electrovoice. Not it's strong suit.

From there, you need to get comfortable with your compressor settings, and again, I'll fly out and only charge $300 / hr for that ... but you're just going to have to get used to working it and understanding it, and it's going to take a lot of time and experimentation. Another thing you'll have to get comfortable with is something called a "Parametric Equalizer," because as much as I like the SM-7, it's rarely going to get you a great sound right out of the box. I sometimes find myself adding as much as 4 dbs at 12 khz (and the occasional high shelf).

Good luck.

.
 
hey chessrock thanks for the advice..your 100% right about me looking at the lyrics sheet...iv been trying to work on that latly...i guess ill try harder...

as for the bass roll off...ill move the left switch down, but what about the right switch? wat position should it be in?
 
chessrock said:
I sometimes find myself adding as much as 4 dbs at 12 khz (and the occasional high shelf).
Click to expand...

:eek:

botinok... the switch may say linear or show a pic of a low cut, if it does you want to stay away from linear and select the low cut may look like this " _/ "
 
Botinok said:
as for the bass roll off...ill move the left switch down, but what about the right switch? wat position should it be in?
Click to expand...

Try it in both positions and pick which one sounds better. Or I could fly out there myself and try it out ... and only bill you $400 an hour. :D Notice how my rates keep going up? Damn gas prices.

The most common problem with rap vocal recordings is not singing completely on-axis because the artist is looking off to the side or down at a lyric sheet. And I can hear it without even having to look; it's absolutely unmistakable. Then the dumbasses flock to the mic forum and ask why their mic doesn't sound good. :D Why the hell would someone pay me my escalating rates, which are now up to about $450/hr, and show up not having their lyrics memorized? I don't get it.

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