Can you help in guitar mixing?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Aviel
  • Start date Start date
Reggie said:
I'm gonna sorta go against some people and with some other people...If a person cannot get a good sound with the amp and mics they have, then a modeler can really help the person get a usable sound. I also am not really fond of the modeler sound most of the time, so I prefer recording a nice tube amp; but this is not always possible.
I have recorded an OK sound with the early Marshall Valvestate, but the last couple series sounded more as poo. Irritating distortion. Beware the contour knob -- might as well call it the "hide guitar in the mix" knob. It will remove your midrange meatchunk if you are not careful.

Your last clip was not too bad, Aviel. Sounds about like I imagine that amp sounding. Much better than the 2-mic phase nightmare of your first clip. Still kind of thin.... But if that is not the tone you are looking for, then I guess it is bad. What kind of sound are you looking for anyway?

I would try just a dynamic mic right in front of the center of your speaker (like an inch or three back) with the end of the mic aiming more at the cone of the speaker than the center dome. The very center is where the fizz is (especially on solid state distorted amps) and the cone is where the meat is. Forget about the condensor for a sec.
Click to expand...

Well the sound i am after is kind of heavy metal ditortion, high gain, but still clear, bright and with a wide midrange.
The sound that was on the "dont look back" clip,- in the first repleys thats a sound i would be happy to get, even though i know its kinda impossible.

Abput the contour, i turned it about 3/4 way up, less then that its was more overdrive then high gain dist.

Aviel
 
It's not impossible Aviel. Just a little hard right now. It just takes a lot practice and sometimes a little "outside the box" thinking. I was always used to the way a head is set up live and always tried to use my live sound in a recording and it never worked. So along with experimenting and the advice of the very helpful people here I was able to achieve close to the tone I desire for recording. Even with a cheap amp and guitar your sounds should improve the more you work at them. And think of it like this. Once you get your sound down on a cheap amp getting it on a good amp will be a breeze. Just keep working at it, keep posting clips and we'll keep helping you. Oh and save your pennies for a good tube amp.
 
Take your time and read this:
http://badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html

Another thing to do is turn the amp up a bit, get some air moving. Maybe throw the amp into a closet and put some blankets around it (it's not a tube amp, so you don't have much to worry about as far as overheating goes). Use the amp's distortion for some takes, the Zoom's for others, and mix the two together. Above all, make sure the sound you want is coming from the amp before you stick a mic in front of it.
 
Well its strange but i noticed that the sound that come out of my amp, is not necesserily the sound thay will get into the record.
On the clip i posted, the amp was very "trebly", but on the record it sounded better, i guess i will just keep trying any possibility!

And as Jonnyc said, i will post them here to get your feedback.
About the "recording guitarist book", i wasn't able to understand what it especially it talks about, but i will hove more seacher over the net to find an "outline" of it or something.

Thanks you all!
Aviel
 
Well here's my "daily" update ;)
I did this record with 5 layers, 2 on left, 3 on right, on each side using Amp's dist, and pedals dist, all was recorded with a dynamic, covered by a heavy blanket.

I know that it still doesn't sound good, i will appreciate it if someone will tell me what he/she thinks that should be improved, and maybe also some mix problem- like levels according to drums etc?

Thanks!

Here's the link:
http://firstva.xoompages.com/shitty.zip

Aviel
 
Keep working at it, that's a definate improvement over your first post. You're definately going in the right direction. At this point it'd be hard for me to give you suggestions without being there. But all in all good work.
 
Whatever you did in this last session made a big improvement...bring the bass guitar up and it should make the guitars sound fuller. Then the drums are next.
 
Thanks :) i will keep tyrying just to record again and again, maybe with some more middle. How many layers do you suggest to try? just as much as i want?


David Katauskas said:
Whatever you did in this last session made a big improvement...bring the bass guitar up and it should make the guitars sound fuller. Then the drums are next.
Click to expand...

I Will try this too.. thanks!
About the drums.. sounds awfull right? i guess i will have to open a new thread for programmed drums mixing ;). Though, do you mean their sound is bad, or their mix?

Aviel
 
Well as I have said already more than once in this thread, you really DO need to bring up the low mids between 100-500 on your guitars.. I'd use a parametric EQ to really nail the exact frequency curve needed.. right now they are kind of nasally sounding, so yes, when I say this I mean do it in the mix itself on each of the guitar channels.. maybe bump up the 2-4khz range on the bass too, to bring it a bit forward and add some more punch to the mix. Once you do this I think your mix should be fine.
 
Aviel said:
Hey
i recorded some track with a distortion rythm guitar, but at the final mix the guitar is very thin, it doesnt sound as a part of the mix, but sounds floating on it.
Also i think that the guitar should be spread on more frenquencis, but when tried to boost the highs, it came out very sharp and worse then before. i tried also to compress it but it didnt help.

I have uploaded a part of the mix, if someone can help me i will be thankfull.

Thanks
Aviel

http://firstva.xoompages.com/begining-04.zip
Click to expand...


Aviel:

Honestly, I,m a guitarrist too and the biggest trouble,in my opinion can be that "ZOOM".
The only model I know (probably not same yours) simply destroy the original dinamic of a guitar sound,and all the frequencies souds too unnatural. I think even with hi gain distortion settings you can feel a more "natural" sound with an amp. Or even a simulator like line 6 POD (direct (line) it´s very good, plugged in an (guitar)amp is crap too.
 
And, note, I´m not saying that your guitar sound is bad,
maybe a bit of eq in certain frequencies can help.

What i´m saying is that I don´t like zoom. :eek:
 
I dont know i quite loved the Zoom i must say.. at least untiil now :P.

Anyway! here's my latest record, i think the guitars sound quite good, its the beginig of a song i am working on.

What do you think of this one?
The rythm were micced, and the solo was made by direct record.

http://firstva.xoompages.com/latest.zip
 
Aviel said:
I dont know i quite loved the Zoom i must say.. at least untiil now :P.

Anyway! here's my latest record, i think the guitars sound quite good, its the beginig of a song i am working on.

What do you think of this one?
The rythm were micced, and the solo was made by direct record.

http://firstva.xoompages.com/latest.zip
Click to expand...


What are you settings on the amp when you recorded this? Also what type of amp are you using again?
 
gee whiz :rolleyes: ..i have the marshall mg100..big mistake..i'm learning!
have you tried turning the amp up as loud as you can..i mean turn it right before it starts getting muddy and stop..and then have you tried placing your mic all the way to the speaker to where you get feedback and then backing off untill the feedback stops..thats where i place mine..no rocket science and no room treatment on mine..
i use a sure sm-57 on "mr devour" and "turd king" and i love lots of gain..so does satriani and zakk wyldes,,very meaty guitar sounds..
most of the great guitarist i listen to have a bbe sound maximizer on they're rig in the studio and live..so therefore i have one as well..i enjoy it...record producers seem to hate them though but thats them and not me...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=407573
but what we both need to do is count the mg as a loss and sell them for what they are worth....we both should have got line 6 spiders for the money we spent..way better tones straight from the amp with no effects. maybe we can still get one..
oh yea i like to almost scoop the eq on the guitar effects and a shit load of gain from compression rather distortion because it does not eat into my tone as bad.....
maybe this will help :confused:
 
I used the Marshall mg 30 DFX, and a distortion from the zoom pedal, with little gain, but boosted a bit the bass and middle- i found this was i get a better dist thenusing the amps dist.

Yeah.. I should give it more volume though it was also a bit loud, i dont want to ruin my ears.. hmm :confused: it was on about half volume, which means that one giving palm mute i could hear things moving in my room :)
I know realize too that i could buy a better amp, but oh well, except for recordings this amp does it job.

Honestly i liked the guitar sound that i got on thie rythm track
 
rokinrandy said:
gee whiz :rolleyes: ..i have the marshall mg100..big mistake..i'm learning!
have you tried turning the amp up as loud as you can..i mean turn it right before it starts getting muddy and stop..and then have you tried placing your mic all the way to the speaker to where you get feedback and then backing off untill the feedback stops..thats where i place mine..no rocket science and no room treatment on mine..
i use a sure sm-57 on "mr devour" and "turd king" and i love lots of gain..so does satriani and zakk wyldes,,very meaty guitar sounds..
most of the great guitarist i listen to have a bbe sound maximizer on they're rig in the studio and live..so therefore i have one as well..i enjoy it...record producers seem to hate them though but thats them and not me...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=407573
but what we both need to do is count the mg as a loss and sell them for what they are worth....we both should have got line 6 spiders for the money we spent..way better tones straight from the amp with no effects. maybe we can still get one..
oh yea i like to almost scoop the eq on the guitar effects and a shit load of gain from compression rather distortion because it does not eat into my tone as bad.....
maybe this will help :confused:
Click to expand...
I have the mg100 and the other guitarist in my band has the line 6 spider. The mg is shit, but it kicks the line 6 in the asshole in my opinion.
 
well i'm glad someone likes the mg100. i don't feel so bad now..volume wise the mg100 is great..but my recordings using my friends spider sound so much better tone wise...and way easier to record...
are you refering to the mg 100 kicks ass live or in band practice because of the volume level...or kicks the spiders ass because of the the tone...
in my opinion alot of amps lose tone with the volume cranked ..thats why i turn my amp up to around 4 and then use a p.a. if i have to live...it just seems all amps mud out after 4 or 5..
but i'm saving up for the peavey head...i can't figure out which i like better ...mesa boogie,,tripple x or the peavey jsx...peavey is way cheaper though.....i played all 3 with my own guitar and effects for hours..great amps for the money...the man told me i helped him sell a coulple because i was playing on them and freakin out over the tones i was getting in front of everybody,lol
but ha ha my friend shawn would be pissed because someone said the mg sounds better than his new 2X12 spider..he has wet dreams about that amp ,lol.keep rokin
 
Aviel said:
I used the Marshall mg 30 DFX, and a distortion from the zoom pedal, with little gain, but boosted a bit the bass and middle- i found this was i get a better dist thenusing the amps dist.

Yeah.. I should give it more volume though it was also a bit loud, i dont want to ruin my ears.. hmm :confused: it was on about half volume, which means that one giving palm mute i could hear things moving in my room :)
I know realize too that i could buy a better amp, but oh well, except for recordings this amp does it job.

Honestly i liked the guitar sound that i got on thie rythm track
Click to expand...

One more thing you need to work on is whatever that hollow sound is in your recordings. All of them have it. Now it's not that your guitar tone isn't getting better it's just that there's this hollowness that I can't stand. So try this for me, unplug the zoom, open up your bedroom window, and dropkick that bitch right out to the curb. I've worked with a zoom before, I hated it so much that I broke it, yes it was an accident, but I'm sure I had really done the guy a huge favor. I hate saying it but, tubes, yep tubes. Tube amps sound so freaking amazing. Oh and disregard the freaking, I meant fucking.
 
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