Stand on metal to ground myself instead of a hum eliminator?

[Bargarcs]

Hokay! The two devices you mentioned, the Line 6 and the Zoom are both powered from external mains 'lumps'. These are almost always without an earth connection these days, indeed they might even use a bi-pin fig 8 mains plug?
The consequence of all this is that the recording setup is 'floating' i.e. the audio screens are not grounded. This matters little in many cases but, as you have found, cause hum with a guitar.

I think you are based in the USA? I base that assumption on your mention of a "surge protector". We in UK rarely have need of such things, even quite large studio setup do not use power conditioners*

What you need to do I am sure is in effect ground the screen of the guitar cable (the guitar should have internal screening but that's another can!) This is best done by taking a single wire, anything will do, from a metal part of the Zoom or pod and connecting it to a known, good ground. The mains earth is usually the handiest but you can use a water pipe or the chassis of a desktop computer...MUST be plugged in! No need to be on.

*In some cases these can make hums worse especially the cheap filtered mains distribution strips.

Dave.

Yes I'm in northeast USA. The internal ground screening of the cables, and switching instruments, gives me some ideas that I haven't been able to put in place yet (I'm very busy right now). I wonder if a nearby floor lamp would work--it's plugged in, and is my main source of light for my recording activities. I also wonder if my Chromebook (also nearby) would work as a ground, though I'm not sure what constitutes "metal" on a Chromebook (I built my own PC but it's way far away in a different room).

How would you attach the wire from the Zoom to a known good ground? Tape or something?

Thank you for getting back to me

 

[ecc83]

"How would you attach the wire from the Zoom to a known good ground?" A very good point! I have studied the best pictures I can find of the Zoom and the Line 6 and there does not seem to be a chassis screw under which to secure a wire. The best you can do I think is tie a wire to the metal body of a jack plug.

Laptops are rarely earthed via their chargers these days which is why you can often feel a slight 'tingling' when you lightly touch their metal parts although that effect might only be present over here on our much higher mains voltage?

Dave.

 

[Bargarcs]

"How would you attach the wire from the Zoom to a known good ground?" A very good point! I have studied the best pictures I can find of the Zoom and the Line 6 and there does not seem to be a chassis screw under which to secure a wire. The best you can do I think is tie a wire to the metal body of a jack plug.

Laptops are rarely earthed via their chargers these days which is why you can often feel a slight 'tingling' when you lightly touch their metal parts although that effect might only be present over here on our much higher mains voltage?

Dave.

Hmm..tie a wire to the metal body of a jack plug. That might work. What kind of metal wire? Copper, steel? Would a steel unwound guitar string work?

Also, I hope my lamp idea works. I do know that my guitars are old and need servicing, so regardless of the grounding issue that's something that's going to require expertise that I don't have, and I'm not comfortable around soldering etc.

 

[TalismanRich]

You can use a multimeter to check if the lamp is truly grounded, especially if it has a 2 prong plug (I doubt it is.... the cable usually only goes to the light and switch, not to the base).

Any type of wire would work. You can get 50ft of doorbell wire for $8 at the hardware store. If you an amplifier with a 3 prong plug, it will be grounded. The comment from Strymon to run a cable between an output and an amp worked. Run a guitar cable from the right output of the Line6 into an amp, but leave the amp off. See if your noise goes away.

 

[Bargarcs]

You can use a multimeter to check if the lamp is truly grounded, especially if it has a 2 prong plug (I doubt it is.... the cable usually only goes to the light and switch, not to the base).

Any type of wire would work. You can get 50ft of doorbell wire for $8 at the hardware store. If you an amplifier with a 3 prong plug, it will be grounded. The comment from Strymon to run a cable between an output and an amp worked. Run a guitar cable from the right output of the Line6 into an amp, but leave the amp off. See if your noise goes away.

Yeah the lamp is 2-prong and goes to the light, not the base.

 

[Bargarcs]

"How would you attach the wire from the Zoom to a known good ground?" A very good point! I have studied the best pictures I can find of the Zoom and the Line 6 and there does not seem to be a chassis screw under which to secure a wire. The best you can do I think is tie a wire to the metal body of a jack plug.

Laptops are rarely earthed via their chargers these days which is why you can often feel a slight 'tingling' when you lightly touch their metal parts although that effect might only be present over here on our much higher mains voltage?

Dave.

I also wonder if I could purchase an anti-static mat and just stand on that with the alligator clip connected to the bottom of a pant leg; the pants of course I'd be wearing . If so it would also serve a great secondary purpose if and when I build my next PC. Something like this maybe? https://www.amazon.com/Electronics-...x=premium+heat+resistant+932+f,aps,112&sr=8-7

 

[TalismanRich]

The problem with the antistatic mat is that it needs a ground point! Whatever ground point you use could be used to ground the Line6. The mat includes a "plug" with only the ground leg active. A simple 3 prong plug with a wire only connected to the ground plug would work.

 

[Bargarcs]

The problem with the antistatic mat is that it needs a ground point! Whatever ground point you use could be used to ground the Line6. The mat includes a "plug" with only the ground leg active. A simple 3 prong plug with a wire only connected to the ground plug would work.

Ok so I'm seeing this. The alligator clip would go on, say, the metal part of an instrument cable plugged into the Line 6 then? Not sure I'd want to use an alligator clip on it though; maybe simply wrapping a copper wire around my leg and then around the instrument cable (or otherwise so that it's touching a metal part of the Line 6, or the Zoom R20 for that matter) would work? https://www.amazon.com/Grounding-Gr...g+plug+and+wir,aps,125&sr=8-6#customerReviews

 

[ecc83]

Ok so I'm seeing this. The alligator clip would go on, say, the metal part of an instrument cable plugged into the Line 6 then? Not sure I'd want to use an alligator clip on it though; maybe simply wrapping a copper wire around my leg and then around the instrument cable (or otherwise so that it's touching a metal part of the Line 6, or the Zoom R20 for that matter) would work? https://www.amazon.com/Grounding-Ground-Cable-Strap-Static/dp/B07BT9TQKD/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3HH8ZEK8ZHZFM&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.KSn15Ha_59D2PZ5Xp9MqEd_SUl8DOhE4OL9I2n1c0EI3FgF2Lfbjawe51xrapeU8tmnJ6LSj2LAIA5hNfJdZ5WLifyyB1vdGZ5rsZ748Q-8fMx8spbYwg5Fcvi9g9D-KSOOb0P71vEi_Mz_w-BPqSVjXiIVyqLpW8WlQ-UT2kyTt74ypizQXzEBXfJyYuX1--6Kmmb6JUisRkorLA672FT8tMBrSEmhmmZa3wBa0_5AmaR1tfrOuqiMkVU6zSkqKBlq4Qc13BU-otunYvDZcVGMHZOTx5IIIWOK6lQXZ7dY.3ftxJPY8GMZcmB-MbuMKyNfJbNMEQFqEP_nodjDSxro&dib_tag=se&keywords=grounding+plug+and+wire&qid=1709521067&sprefix=grounding+plug+and+wir,aps,125&sr=8-6#customerReviews

No! Don't ground yourself! As I said earlier, in the very, very rare event of a fault you need to be able to 'let go'. In any case this is a poor understanding of the physics of the situation. It is not YOU that needs grounding but the equipment!

Re "wire", car accessory shops sell reels of single core wire in a range of diameters, you just need the thinnest and cheapest (unless you need some for the jam jar!) Here in UK we have a nationwide car acc' Co called "Halfords".

Dave.

 

[rob aylestone]

What flowers would you like at your funeral.
In this clip, George Harrison gets a shock when he grounds himself on the mic stand. Nobody believes him till somebody else gets a belt too. He let go, quickly. With copper wire around your leg, that would be, er, difficult.

 

[TalismanRich]

The purpose of an antistat mat is different from what you want. They are designed to drain static electricity from you before handling electrically sensitive parts. Ever walk across the carpet and get shocked when you reach for a door knob or light switch? That's a discharge of thousands of volts (very low amperage) going from your body. If you are handling IC circuits, a 10,000V spark could fry the circuits inside. Hence the mat... it drains the static electricity from your body before you handle those parts. I worked in an industry that used lots of flammable solvents. I had to wear static dissipative shoes to prevent a buildup of static. A spark in the wrong spot could cause a flash fire or worse. We had ground cables going through the entire building that were tested quarterly.

You simply need to provide a ground point from the Line 6 or R20. YOU don't want to be that ground path!!!!! Get a guitar cable with a plug like this, clip the alligator clip to the metal cover and attach it to a grounded piece of metal somewhere.
.

 

[Bargarcs]

No! Don't ground yourself! As I said earlier, in the very, very rare event of a fault you need to be able to 'let go'. In any case this is a poor understanding of the physics of the situation. It is not YOU that needs grounding but the equipment!

Re "wire", car accessory shops sell reels of single core wire in a range of diameters, you just need the thinnest and cheapest (unless you need some for the jam jar!) Here in UK we have a nationwide car acc' Co called "Halfords".

Dave.

Forgive me. I am recovering from a major illness and am trying to learn something I never learned before. Thank you for your patience.

 

[Papanate]

I’ve never heard of people in professional environments running grounds to devices - that doesn’t sound safe at all - the potential ground would be running through the device - and if touched it - you would be the live ground - and severely burned or dead IMO - now IMO the best way to find out what is cuasing the ground loop is to start simple - frist running your guitar sans any pedals direct to the Zoom - Buzz then - check all your cables or buy new ones - then if no buzz put the guitar into the Line 6 PodXT - but don’t plug it into the Zoom yet - plug your guitar in and your headphones - if no buzz - plug the PodXT into the Zoom - and see if there is a buzz - if there is Check your cables and replace if necessary - finally plug in your guitar into the PodXT and plug in the Zoom - if a buzz is present at that point - check you cables first and replace - or the Potential is in your Guitar - either faulty wiring or improper ground or something - but either way get it fixed and repeat the process again - Under no circumstance try to gournd yourself to eliminate the problem - as everyone says you are inviting death to come knocking at that point.

Ground is almost always simple BTW - finding it is monotonous - but that’s the way it is - It maybe your Zoom itself is faulty and needs service too BTW.

 

[ecc83]

Papanate mate, 'we' have I think already established earlier that the OP's problem is not a ground 'loop'. This cannot be the case since neither devices mentioned actually HAVE any connection to ground. This is a relatively new problem caused, as I say because of the great increase in class ll "double insulated" and therefore UN grounded equipment.

No, you won't find a "professional" studio with ad hoc grounding cables because all those shennanigans will have been bugged out of the system before you rocked up.
It IS however entirely possible that if a top client insisted on the use of some exotic piece of outboard gear, a hum could arise and the cure could well be the grounding of said exotica.

Anyone who was building guitar amplifiers in the 1960s will know this.

In a small device, a 4 mic mixer say, internal grounding is usually pretty straightforward but when the mixers get very large with many more channels and sections that draw significant currents it needs some creative work to keep noise to a minimum.

In the data industry where multiple shielded data cables connected two building together significant currents can run in the cable screens and can cause errors. Such problem ARE fixed by using separate, heavier cables to divert the currents. The practice has largely been made redundant by the development of optical cabling.

There is absolutely no danger in providing a ground to system that lacks one. Just don't make yourself part of that system!

Dave.

 

[Bargarcs]

Papanate mate, 'we' have I think already established earlier that the OP's problem is not a ground 'loop'. This cannot be the case since neither devices mentioned actually HAVE any connection to ground. This is a relatively new problem caused, as I say because of the great increase in class ll "double insulated" and therefore UN grounded equipment.

No, you won't find a "professional" studio with ad hoc grounding cables because all those shennanigans will have been bugged out of the system before you rocked up.
It IS however entirely possible that if a top client insisted on the use of some exotic piece of outboard gear, a hum could arise and the cure could well be the grounding of said exotica.

Anyone who was building guitar amplifiers in the 1960s will know this.

In a small device, a 4 mic mixer say, internal grounding is usually pretty straightforward but when the mixers get very large with many more channels and sections that draw significant currents it needs some creative work to keep noise to a minimum.

In the data industry where multiple shielded data cables connected two building together significant currents can run in the cable screens and can cause errors. Such problem ARE fixed by using separate, heavier cables to divert the currents. The practice has largely been made redundant by the development of optical cabling.

There is absolutely no danger in providing a ground to system that lacks one. Just don't make yourself part of that system!

Dave.

After the education that you've helped give me Dave, yep.

 

[Bargarcs]

No! Don't ground yourself! As I said earlier, in the very, very rare event of a fault you need to be able to 'let go'. In any case this is a poor understanding of the physics of the situation. It is not YOU that needs grounding but the equipment!

Re "wire", car accessory shops sell reels of single core wire in a range of diameters, you just need the thinnest and cheapest (unless you need some for the jam jar!) Here in UK we have a nationwide car acc' Co called "Halfords".

Dave.

Hey Dave and others: SUCCESS! I walked to the hardware store, bought 20 feet of thin copper wire, wrapped it around one of the instrument cables, then cut it and wrapped the other end around my ankle (and used a small amount of electrical tape so that the wire didn't move), and IT WORKS!

You have no idea how happy I am. Recording music is vital to my illness recovery. Thank you so much.

 

[ecc83]

Hey Dave and others: SUCCESS! I walked to the hardware store, bought 20 feet of thin copper wire, wrapped it around one of the instrument cables, then cut it and wrapped the other end around my ankle (and used a small amount of electrical tape so that the wire didn't move), and IT WORKS!

You have no idea how happy I am. Recording music is vital to my illness recovery. Thank you so much.

Now I rarely curse in plain type but OH FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

Dave.

 

[rob aylestone]

You are completely mad. It's stupid, dangerous and ridiculous. Recording music looks like it might kill you. All we can say is we tried.

If you don't believe us, pick ANY local electrician and tell him what you have done. You might be happy, but we're all going to feel responsible if you die. I'm not joking - what you have done is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I'm out now - I don't want to be associated with this craziness!

 

[ecc83]

You are completely mad. It's stupid, dangerous and ridiculous. Recording music looks like it might kill you. All we can say is we tried.

If you don't believe us, pick ANY local electrician and tell him what you have done. You might be happy, but we're all going to feel responsible if you die. I'm not joking - what you have done is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I'm out now - I don't want to be associated with this craziness!

Wait for me Rob!

Dave.

 

[Bargarcs]

Now I rarely curse in plain type but OH FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

Dave.

For Fuck's sake? Did you mean to reply to someone else? I do see that there's disinformation going on here in the forums, and not from you.