CAD M177 vs. M37

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PhilGood

PhilGood

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I know both these mics have the same circuit, but as I understand it they have different capsules and grills. Anyone have experience with both and can tell me how different they sound? Is there any difference at all? I have th 177 and am thinking about an M37.
 
I believe the M37 was the same mic as the M177, or very similar anyhow.

War
 
Yes, but to my understanding, capsule and grill have a huge impact on the sound. I know these have different grills and capsules. Do they sound much different from each other?

Maybe I'm wrong and only the grills are different...

Anyone know?
 
Well, the grilles are certainly different. I believe they're the same capules, though, if I'm not mistaken.
 
Well, just got 2 for $99 on eBay. Hope they are good mics. I have an M177 and think its a pretty good mic. I'm hoping the M37 is as good. Anyone use them for overheads?
 
OK. I just made an interesting observation. I got my two M37 mics today. One was fine, but the other looked like the capsule was off-centered when I first looked at it, Then I discovered the capsule mount was free floating and/or broken. I took the mic apart to fix it, and to my dismay, discovered the capsule is exactly the same as a Shanghai capsule.

To confirm this, I pulled a spare capsule from a v67 off the shelf and put them side by side. They are identical!! I've dealt with these capsules a lot in all the mic modding I've been doing. I'm almost certain this is the same capsule!

CAD claims this capsule is made in USA and the same as the Equitec 300. (Maybe it was the e200. Harvey? Help?) How can that be? I'm starting to suspect that if I opened my M177, I bet I'd find it would have a 797 capsule (1.1")!

Odd thing is that they sound WAY better than any stock MXL! I always thought the capsule had the most impact on the sound, but maybe the type of circuit is more/as important. I know this is true with the tube mics I've built. The other mods I've done are more about replacing the capacitors with good mylars or films. These mics use op-amps instead of FET's.

Maybe the FET's the chinese mics use are crap as well! Any thoughts?
 
Well, I got a case of "wildhairitis" and decided to open the M177. Its a 797 capsule! I used a dual sided one for my Elam. Same capsule as the MXL 2003. Same as the SP B1, etc.

Not that anyone cares.
 
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Well a lot of companies have parts machined in china and assemble them in the USA, I guess differences in the tensioning of the film could have a large impact. Are the diaphragms glued and screwed or just screwed?
 
The mic is assembled in the USA, as most of the CAD stuff is...but the capsules are from China. I don't know what they're doing different tuning wise but it sure beats most of the stock Chinese mics. The M179 just doesn't have that peaky stuff going on.

War
 
Wow, this is some really good detective work, Philgood.

I wonder if this has anything to do with Mercenary dumping the CAD line a few years back (?) I remember him saying something about their QC suffering after some company changes, etc.

On their web site, it's as clear as day: "The M177 features a single pattern version of the original Equitek E-300 capsule."

And upon some searches on R.A.P., there has been corespondences with CAD posted that seem to indicate that CAD contracted 797 (or Shanghai or whomever) to produce replicas of their E-300 capsule.

They may not have been very up-front about that one, but at least they do a good job of utilizing the Chinese capsules. Maybe assembling them here in the States allows them to cherry pick the capsules and maintain better QC? Who even knows (?)

Maybe the FET's the chinese mics use are crap as well! Any thoughts?
Click to expand...


Isn't that what the Dorsey mod was about?

If I remember correctly, the whole idea behind the Dorsey mod was to address problems with the FET stage in the Shanghai mics. Now I'm not well-versed in this geek stuff, but it would seem that CAD just does away with the FET thing altogether.

For the most part, the whole idea behind both the Dorsey and Royer mods is that the capsules themselves aren't the weak spot on most of these mics, and perhaps CAD was able to address some of these other factors.

This is all just really interesting.
 
paddyponchero said:
Well a lot of companies have parts machined in china and assemble them in the USA, I guess differences in the tensioning of the film could have a large impact. Are the diaphragms glued and screwed or just screwed?
Click to expand...

This is what John Peluso does. That must be why his mics sound better. I think they are screwed. Though I really can't detect any traces of glue, there might be some. The diaphragms are good quality. No wrinkles or rough edges where they're trimmed.
 
chessrock said:
Wow, this is some really good detective work, Philgood.

I wonder if this has anything to do with Mercenary dumping the CAD line a few years back (?) I remember him saying something about their QC suffering after some company changes, etc.

On their web site, it's as clear as day: "The M177 features a single pattern version of the original Equitek E-300 capsule."

And upon some searches on R.A.P., there has been corespondences with CAD posted that seem to indicate that CAD contracted 797 (or Shanghai or whomever) to produce replicas of their E-300 capsule.

They may not have been very up-front about that one, but at least they do a good job of utilizing the Chinese capsules. Maybe assembling them here in the States allows them to cherry pick the capsules and maintain better QC? Who even knows (?)

[/b]

Isn't that what the Dorsey mod was about?

If I remember correctly, the whole idea behind the Dorsey mod was to address problems with the FET stage in the Shanghai mics. Now I'm not well-versed in this geek stuff, but it would seem that CAD just does away with the FET thing altogether.

For the most part, the whole idea behind both the Dorsey and Royer mods is that the capsules themselves aren't the weak spot on most of these mics, and perhaps CAD was able to address some of these other factors.

This is all just really interesting.
Click to expand...


The really interesting part is that most claim the type capsule and the grill effect the sound most. While I don't doubt this has great importance, I've used the same capsule with different tube circuits and end up with completely different sounding mics.

I think the use of op amps is brilliant. They're not too expensive for good quality amps, and the high speed, low noise operation explains why these sound so transparent. The low end is off the chart, too. It doesn't start to dip at 30hz like most MXL, SP, ADK etc. Its a straight line to 20hz and stops, so I believe it goes even lower. You can hear it.
 
PhilGood said:
The low end is off the chart, too. It doesn't start to dip at 30hz like most MXL, SP, ADK etc. Its a straight line to 20hz and stops, so I believe it goes even lower. You can hear it.
Click to expand...

I think that just overall, they tend to be more linear accross the spectrum. Not as peaky in the high end, either. At least from what I've noticed.
 
chessrock said:
I think that just overall, they tend to be more linear accross the spectrum. Not as peaky in the high end, either. At least from what I've noticed.
Click to expand...

Check this out:

If Peluso uses the same metal work as the shanghai capsules and does the tensioning himself, then the proper response from this capsule would be shown for the 32mm single sided (cek-89) at the bottom of this page:

http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/capsnmnts.html

If CAD does the same, then their freq. response for the *entire mic* is almost identical.

http://www.cadmics.com/m37.htm

This means CAD's triumph is in building an incredibly accurate and clean head amplifier for this mic.
 
PhilGood said:
This means CAD's triumph is in building an incredibly accurate and clean head amplifier for this mic.
Click to expand...


... Which would likely place CAD at the head of the class as far as budget Chinese mics go (?). No need to do all the time-consuming mods (or spend money having others do them for you) when you can just pick up a CAD for the same $$ or slightly more ... and have a mic that basically achieves the same objectives that all these mods set out to do? No?

Again, some great detecive work, there Philgood. Your observations are quite astute.
 
chessrock said:
... Which would likely place CAD at the head of the class as far as budget Chinese mics go (?). No need to do all the time-consuming mods (or spend money having others do them for you) when you can just pick up a CAD for the same $$ or slightly more ... and have a mic that basically achieves the same objectives that all these mods set out to do? No?
Click to expand...

I'd have to concur completely with this on the M177, M179 and equitek series. Well worth it! For me, the jury is still out on the GLX series. They just look like rebadged shanghai mics like MXL, Nady and the like.

Thanks for the feedback!
 
PhilGood said:
I'd have to concur completely with this on the M177, M179 and equitek series. Well worth it! For me, the jury is still out on the GLX series. They just look like rebadged shanghai mics like MXL, Nady and the like.
Click to expand...

How about those 37's ? What are your thoughts on that one?
 
chessrock said:
How about those 37's ? What are your thoughts on that one?
Click to expand...

Haven't done any recording yet, but have A/B'd them with the M177. They are very similar. The top end of the M177 is a bit silkier, which is typical from 797 capsules. They are both equally transparent. The low end to my ears is almost identical. I'm going to have to consider shock mounts for them as the low end is so full that touching the mic housing, or tapping your foot while on the mic stand, is very pronounced. The roll-off works quite well. The 37s are bigger and heavier.

I'm going to try some acoustic guitar tracks (even though I'm not really a guitarist) and then see how they work for drum overheads. So far I'm very pleased!!
 
M37 and M177 sound almost identical

Hi,

I have both the M37 and M177. I too took them apart and noticed that they have different capsules, but identical circuitry. When I A/B tested them. It is really hard to tell them apart. Both are excellent. In the link:

http://www.cadmics.com/m37.htm, it does say "made in USA" plain as day - which is sort of misleading. I notice that this label is no longer to be found in CAD's WEB site. I really like buying domestically and am satisfied with my CAD mics, but are there any mics out there that are reasonably priced and totally made in the USA?
 
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