C 414 substitute.

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mattkw80

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A matched pair of AKG C 414's new, in Canada, is $2578

http://www.economik.com/products/shop_by_brand/AKG/C_414B-XLII_ST/


I am looking for a pair of mics primarily as drum over heads, but, if they could be useful on other things as well, that is a bonus. I guess I am leaning towards the c 414's because of their proven history, and because people say they are very flat, neutal, transparent.

My current Drum Overhead mics are Audix F15's, which are fine for budget SDC's, but I think it's time to upgrade.

I've heard nothing but good things about the AT 4050, and people seem to compare it to the c414's quite a bit. I can get those for $600 each. Alot of engineer's in interviews mention AT mics. (Behind the Glass, Recording Engineer's handbook)


Was the AT4050 designed to rival the c 414 ?

Are there any other more afordable c 414 like clones that I should check out ?

Any other stereo Drum OH mics I should be considering ?


Not sure if this is important or not, but 90% of the time I am micing the OH's using the Recorder Man Method.
 
I don't have a suggestion due to my negligible drum-micing experience, but with the recorder man method, do you use cardioids for the overheads? If so, and you can get by with a cardioid-only mic, then you would open up some lower cost options, like AT 4033s
 
Yeah, I'll be using a cardioid pattern 99% of the time anyhow, so you are right, I don't really need the OMNI, Figure 8, etc.

Is the 4033 just a 4050 with less options ?
 
No, the 4033 isn't a cardioid version of the 4050. It is a completely different mic with a smaller capsule and a more hyped high end. I have a pair of 4050s and a 4033. I rarely use the 4033 except on just the right voice. I've used the 4050s for overheads and I think they work well for that purpose. Alternatively, you could use a pair of 4051s as overheads as well. While there are a plethora of 414 versions, I don't think of any of them as flat neutral or transparent. I generally view them as a bit hyped, which may or may not be what you want. The 4050s are a flatter mic. Used 414s are @ $500- 600 each depending on model. Used 4050s are @$350 each. Used 4051s are @ $250 each.
 
No, the 4033 isn't a cardioid version of the 4050. It is a completely different mic with a smaller capsule and a more hyped high end. I have a pair of 4050s and a 4033. I rarely use the 4033 except on just the right voice. I've used the 4050s for overheads and I think they work well for that purpose. Alternatively, you could use a pair of 4051s as overheads as well. While there are a plethora of 414 versions, I don't think of any of them as flat neutral or transparent. I generally view them as a bit hyped, which may or may not be what you want. The 4050s are a flatter mic. Used 414s are @ $500- 600 each depending on model. Used 4050s are @$350 each. Used 4051s are @ $250 each.

I love the 4050s on overheads, I'm waiting til I have the money for a 2nd one.
 
I looked the 4051 up... I don't know why, but I want to go LDC on this.

I also notice AT has a 4047/SV that looks to be their "vintage" u47 type offering.

Wonder how that would work for OH's.


I've got a small Catalina Club Gretch kit, and keep it tuned real dry. Big fan of really dry, natural, and live sounding drums.

My room is treated really well, but... the one thing I can't fix is the low 7 1/2ceilings.
 
Pohaku's got a good point about the used C414 market. I have one (but not two) C414B-ULS that I got used. It is very rugged, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one used if I could put it to good use for the money. You see them go consistently for around $500-$600 US (what's that about $75 canadian these days? :D) on the 'bay. I'm not sure I've seen a matched pair go up, and I'm not sure how closely matched "unmatched" ones tend to be. I hear they do a *very* tight matching job on the matched ones.

And of course he's also right about the 4033 vs the 4050. I recently got a 4040 (but have never had a 4050) that's a lot less hyped on the high end, and also cardioid only. I think my 414 sounds fairly flat, but I've heard the B-ULS is less hyped than the newer models.
 
Yeah I've seen them around Ebay hovering around the $600 price range.

But... used mics make me nervous... I'm always worried there will be something wrong with the capsule, and what's worse.... unless it was really obvious, how would I know ?

I'm really heading in the AT4050 or 4047 direction here I think....

...I just downloaded all 15 of their wav files, put them up in my DAW and I am going to do a blind comparison of their different models right now.


http://www.audio-technica.com/cms//94191e1fd14f6418/index.html
 
Has anybody done a shootout on overheads between the C414 and the Oktava MK-012? I've found those to suit my kit extremely well as overheads. Usually for overheads, large diaphragms are the opposite of what you'd want, since percussion sounds are all about the transients and large diaphragms are designed specifically to reduce/smear the transients.... Just my $0.02.
 
That's something to consider for sure.

I'm still looking a bunch of stuff up right now.
 
I have been hesitant to post because I have never used the 414.
But I have had really nice results recording Recorderman or Glyn Johns style with a pair of CAD E-100s. It is a mid sized diaphragm Cardiod mic. It has excellent transient response and a full bodied non hyped sound I like. They have on board rechargeable 9v batteries to provide a lot of headroom .

I am a drummer myself so I am pretty picky about what I want my drums to sound like.

You can find the E100s for around $100 to $150 used all the time. They also make excellent acoustic guitar mics
 
tmix,

Those get mentioned alot, so I'm going to look into it.

Do I have to use the 9V, or can I just use phatom power ?

Do you have any songs or samples online I can hear?
 
M,
It can be used both ways.
I use it where it runs off Phantom with the batteries as backup if the phantom glitches or is not enough for a split second to cover the mics need.
It can also be used (flipping an internal switch) with the batteries supplying the phantom stand alone like out in the field, and then recharge it by plugging it into a source with phantom.

I have some different stuff out there, do you want drums in a mix or all alone?
 
Whatever is not a pain in the butt for you to show me... I don't want you to have to do all kinds of uploading and all that....

...if you've got a song that uses them as OH that would be cool, and if you happen to have the OH or mixed Drum Group by it'sself, that would be a nice bonus.
 
A matched pair of AKG C 414's new, in Canada, is $2578

http://www.economik.com/products/shop_by_brand/AKG/C_414B-XLII_ST/


I am looking for a pair of mics primarily as drum over heads, but, if they could be useful on other things as well, that is a bonus. I guess I am leaning towards the c 414's because of their proven history, and because people say they are very flat, neutal, transparent.

My current Drum Overhead mics are Audix F15's, which are fine for budget SDC's, but I think it's time to upgrade.

I've heard nothing but good things about the AT 4050, and people seem to compare it to the c414's quite a bit. I can get those for $600 each. Alot of engineer's in interviews mention AT mics. (Behind the Glass, Recording Engineer's handbook)


Was the AT4050 designed to rival the c 414 ?

Are there any other more afordable c 414 like clones that I should check out ?

Any other stereo Drum OH mics I should be considering ?


Not sure if this is important or not, but 90% of the time I am micing the OH's using the Recorder Man Method.

ADK TL is a good substitute, particularly TL 's with the G67 or C12 Au capsule upgrades (a bit smoother, tighter)
 
tmix -

That sounds INCREDIBLE !!

It probably helps that the drummer is incredible.


(Who said - "Give me a good drummer, and I'll give you a good Drum track?")
 
I love my 414, I just wish I had another one for stereo applications. Honestly it's the most expensive mic I own, and I haven't even thought about the cost since I started using it.
As far as a cheaper alternative goes, I say look to AKG. Check out the C 214, it's apparently a cardioid only version of the 414........sounds like a winner to me.

BTW, I'm using Oktava MK-012's on overhead and they're awesome for that application!!!!!
 
Well, a cardioid version of the C 414 would work just fine.

Polar patterns are nice, but I could certainly get by with just cardioid.

How certain are you that that is true ?


EDIT: Wow.... I just looked it up....... this would work !!! Just need to get a price..... these baby's are brand new...
 
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