second skin
BEAT IT!
as already stated...listen to any ACDC record. if you were to solo those tracks you would be amazed at how clean they actually are. too much distortion gets mushy once the layers start to come in.
Best way to get a "heavy" guitar tone
- Thread starter Everybody
- Start date
as already stated...listen to any ACDC record. if you were to solo those tracks you would be amazed at how clean they actually are. too much distortion gets mushy once the layers start to come in.
slowmotion
New member
Perfect example hey. We don't mean clean like Fender Twin clean, but less gain than you'd use live. It doesn't mean that if you stacked a whole bunch of clean guitar tracks down it would become crushingly heavy death metal tone! Oh and that's gain AT the guitar amp, not gain on the mic you might be using or anything.
And don't forget some mids!
If you like, give it a go when you're recording. Do one take with high gain, and another with lower gain, and you should be able to see the difference it makes to a mix. Less fizz, more body.
Plus less gain means less noise from the amp too, which is a plus if you've gotta stack them together eventually!
Sonixx
New member
your clip please.... the OP is asking how to get heavy tracks and your answer is listen to ACDC? the OPs example is nothing like ACDC.
ACDC tone is awesome, but it's not HEAVY IMO...
that's why I'm asking for clips... to help calibrate. obviously, my idea of heavy is not even remotely close to yours.
here's a tracking of mine that I consider heavy... Heavy Clip
slowmotion
New member
You fail at recognizing heaviness. Sonically heavy is different to stylistically heavy, and that's what the OP is asking.
If you need more obvious examples, listen to anything by Black Dahlia Murder (Miasma is a good one). Those guitars are much cleaner than you think and much cleaner than they sound.
Otherwise you wouldn't hear all the guitar parts, it would just be total mush.
(sorry edit: here's a youtube of it: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=DosW2CAKBqI )
Sonixx
New member
AMcB
Why you gotta be so mean?
Ahhhh I hate that so called "bassdrum" sound. Wheres the bass? Sorry to go off topic.
slowmotion
New member
Ok if Black Dahlia isn't floating your boat, Arsis use a cleaner tone approach too.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=AHC9w7pCIMQ
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=sjKEHL9XJKE (even cleaner!)
You can disagree all you like but I'm not arguing opinions here, just applicable theory. I also don't think ACDC is a heavy band, but they do have a heavy tone on record which is what we're shooting for, I don't mean to offend or anything.
(ps Arsis kick ass... must go listen to the entire A Celebration of Guilt album)
Sonixx
New member
that's all fine, but post something of your's... are you only going to point to some commercial recording? do you have any heavy , IYO, guitar tracking of your own?
I'm still interested in your Clean, Clean, Clean thing. please post something of yours that demonstrates heavy that is tracked Much, Much, Much Cleaner.
here's a couple more of mine:
Dorado Greenback and R84
Elmwood Modena M90
I'm still interested in your Clean, Clean, Clean thing. please post something of yours that demonstrates heavy that is tracked Much, Much, Much Cleaner.
here's a couple more of mine:
Dorado Greenback and R84
Elmwood Modena M90
slowmotion
New member
I don't have any of my own here at work; and I'm not here for a chest beating competition; I'm merely espousing a technique which has worked for me in the past and for countless others.
If you chose to ignore it, cool. If you disagree, cool. Just trying to help the OP.
I note you're not double or quad tracking those guitars in your examples either, stack a few of them together and see what has more clarity in a heavy context. Or perhaps a clip of your entire band? It's not really fair to compare single tracked guitars to an entire death metal band, there's a lot less sonic room to move when there's all the other instruments in there, so sacrifices in gain help in that respect. That's all.
(edit: that's actually my whole point. What sounds great by itself isn't always best in context).
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Sonixx
New member
IMO, posting your own work and giving others the opportunity to ask questions about how it is what I find helpful... if that's chest beating then so be it.
slowmotion
New member
That's not what I meant. But if that's your aim, post helpful examples of multiple tracked guitars in a heavy band context to discuss, and not just examples of your guitar being recorded by itself, which prove or illustrate nothing to do with the question posed.
Sonixx
New member
http://www.netmusicians.org/?section=user&value=Keiffer
your turn...
lol, I guess I have really missed the OP's question... about recording Heavy guitar.
here's some of my work for all to judge... I'm open to questions if anyone cares to ask... but talk is cheap
ah, I just noticed the OP's right down the road from me.
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Everybody
Hail Santa
this little debate is heping me out a lot haha
yes, i dont really want "ac/dc" tone exactly, i know what you mean though
i cant describe the sound im going for really, i guess i shouldnt have said heavy cause that can mean many things, i just have bands i listen to where the guitars sound pronounced and heavy, and just awesome.
that 'heavy clip' you posted sonixx ies actually REALLY close to what im trying to get at.
slowmotion...yes those bands are incredible, and tones id love to achieve one day!
where do you live sonixx???
yes, i dont really want "ac/dc" tone exactly, i know what you mean though
i cant describe the sound im going for really, i guess i shouldnt have said heavy cause that can mean many things, i just have bands i listen to where the guitars sound pronounced and heavy, and just awesome.
that 'heavy clip' you posted sonixx ies actually REALLY close to what im trying to get at.
slowmotion...yes those bands are incredible, and tones id love to achieve one day!
where do you live sonixx???
slowmotion
New member
Sigh, that's the chest beating I was hoping to avoid. It's not "my turn" to prove anything, just offer some ideas in a public space. Yet you've still given no advice to help whatsoever... at least I'm attempting to give some input.
You did miss the question, IMO. He said he was hoping to record bands. Which, at least to me, means the whole band, guitar sound and all as a whole, and I believe recording single guitars and entire bands require a different approach to the guitar sound.lol, I guess I have really missed the OP's question... about recording Heavy guitar.
here's some of my work for all to judge... I'm open to questions if anyone cares to ask... but talk is cheap
.
You know, you're right, talk is cheap, so how about you afford the time to talk about the matter at hand and perhaps a little insight on your methodology? i.e. how high gain sounds work within a band. I'll admit your tracks sound great, that's not the issue (I hope not as I have much the same gear), but why do you feel that higher gain sounds = heaviness?
To put it another way, why do you feel so strongly against what I and many others have suggested or feel that it's poor advice?
punkrocker
New member
second skin
BEAT IT!
well of course you don't want ACDC for a death metal record. i stated that because it's general viewed as a great guitar sound that is also rather heavy. it's also very clean
the point is. use less gain than you think. i don't have time to post clips right now and i don't really do metal so i have none in the genre. i do know that every time that i stack guitars i use less distortion than i would have live and it sounds great. otherwise its very easy for things to get mushy once the tracks are layered us. also don't cut out all of your mids. it might sound cool live but too much of that will sound weak later on.
none of these are groundbreaking ideas. go read the slipperman article. it's right on point.
the point is. use less gain than you think. i don't have time to post clips right now and i don't really do metal so i have none in the genre. i do know that every time that i stack guitars i use less distortion than i would have live and it sounds great. otherwise its very easy for things to get mushy once the tracks are layered us. also don't cut out all of your mids. it might sound cool live but too much of that will sound weak later on.
none of these are groundbreaking ideas. go read the slipperman article. it's right on point.
Sonixx
New member
ideas are good and I would suggest our heaviness definition is different. see my post #24. I understand this issue and often we talk past each on this because I find it's very difficult to describe sufficiently the tone in my head. thus, my gtr clips show you exactly what I think is heavy. I'll discuss how I get at it soon when I have a bit more time. hopefully a nugget will be found that is helpful.
for me, pointing to commercial CD tones does not help me record them.
I disagree and agree. I'll take a well recorded gtr tone over any other tone every day of the week. you keep stating about the full mix as though you have insight about this other don't... or that I'm missing the boat. the OP is trying to get a grasp on recording heavy tones. this can be a real challenge. he'll determine the mix and the appropriateness of the track. I'm just posting some single tracks that I have recorded. sorry this does not fulfill all meet your expectations, but you'll probably mold you expectation around whatever...
I never stated my opinion about heavy other than ACDC. I still want to hear your suggestions put into practice... i.e. clips of your work. if you're touting methods, one would assume you use these methods.
Clips please!
Sonixx
New member
thanks... that clip is a 5150 and Rev 1 (reamp) on both sides. single take each side.
I live very close to Clemson.
If you need reamping let me know... freebee
mrface2112
Well-known member
Oy, this thread's taken a dump into the crapper. That's a shame.
As one who previously used the term "clean", I feel (for better or worse) that I need to jump in and clarify what I mean. when i use the term "clean" or "cleaner", i mean "less gain or distortion than you'd think you need, especially preamp gain".
We good with that?
I *do* consider Highway to Hell to be a "heavy" guitar. But it's a different "heavy guitar" than Opeth or Lamb of God, etc. I consider the guitar in Rush's "Bastille Day" to be a really heavy guitar. But in any case, those guitars are all cleaner sounding than one thinks they are. When you hear them, you initially think "loads of gain on the pedal/preamp"........but in reality, it's usually several "not as distorted" guitars stacked on top of each other rather than one "wasps in a paper sack" guitar.
My use of "clean" does not connote "tele into fender twin on 6". It's "clean compared to over the top, distorted to the wall, crush em all, everything on 10" sort of tone. It's cleaner, not clean.
Clean also denotes "clarity". Lots of gain/distortion tends to turn to mush, and good sounding heavy guitars have clarity. Hard to get clarity from that scooped mids "V" eq shape. Focus on your lower mids here--more lower mids can give both heaviness and clarity.
In my experience, I find that double-tracked guitars at roughly 1/2 to 2/3 the gain/drive I'd use when playing live gives a heavier recorded sound than one fully-driven guitar. I usually take my "live" sound and roll it back a little. If i can ever get my kids to stop being sick when I've got scheduled time off, maybe i could get something i've recorded finished and post an example.
til then, YMMV.
Happy Thanksgiving y'all. I give thanks that we live in a world where a forum like this exists.
cheers,
wade
PS--Here's a test for the original poster. You obviously have a sonic goal in mind. Setup your guitar/amp like you think it needs to sound to achieve that goal, mic it up and get it rockin. Then import a track from the band you're using as a reference into your recording program. Play the track and see what your amp/guitar sounds like in comparison. Note the differences. Then tweak til you get it right.
As one who previously used the term "clean", I feel (for better or worse) that I need to jump in and clarify what I mean. when i use the term "clean" or "cleaner", i mean "less gain or distortion than you'd think you need, especially preamp gain".
We good with that?
I *do* consider Highway to Hell to be a "heavy" guitar. But it's a different "heavy guitar" than Opeth or Lamb of God, etc. I consider the guitar in Rush's "Bastille Day" to be a really heavy guitar. But in any case, those guitars are all cleaner sounding than one thinks they are. When you hear them, you initially think "loads of gain on the pedal/preamp"........but in reality, it's usually several "not as distorted" guitars stacked on top of each other rather than one "wasps in a paper sack" guitar.
My use of "clean" does not connote "tele into fender twin on 6". It's "clean compared to over the top, distorted to the wall, crush em all, everything on 10" sort of tone. It's cleaner, not clean.
Clean also denotes "clarity". Lots of gain/distortion tends to turn to mush, and good sounding heavy guitars have clarity. Hard to get clarity from that scooped mids "V" eq shape. Focus on your lower mids here--more lower mids can give both heaviness and clarity.
In my experience, I find that double-tracked guitars at roughly 1/2 to 2/3 the gain/drive I'd use when playing live gives a heavier recorded sound than one fully-driven guitar. I usually take my "live" sound and roll it back a little. If i can ever get my kids to stop being sick when I've got scheduled time off, maybe i could get something i've recorded finished and post an example.
til then, YMMV.
Happy Thanksgiving y'all. I give thanks that we live in a world where a forum like this exists.
cheers,
wade
PS--Here's a test for the original poster. You obviously have a sonic goal in mind. Setup your guitar/amp like you think it needs to sound to achieve that goal, mic it up and get it rockin. Then import a track from the band you're using as a reference into your recording program. Play the track and see what your amp/guitar sounds like in comparison. Note the differences. Then tweak til you get it right.
Sonixx
New member
this is a recording forum and formites should be able to post clips they record showing and demoing the advice they give.
I'm definitely not confusing Fender cleans with clean distortion. But I also do not agree with this less gain thing... that seems to be worn as a badge of honor. For me it's not about less, but about the right amount to achieve the intended goal. I never start by turning amp dials based on some notion as this.
Are you confusing saturation/gain with IMD? Amps with very low IMD can be dialed with tons of gain and still have clarity.
do you have other rules like the mic must be 3 inches from the cone at 90 degrees? I bet not. So why start with the false premise that 1/2 an arbitrary gain setting is the right starting point.
Well stated...
