Best option for live recordings...Compressor or Limiter?

[zip]

If I want to add some fullness or "sustain" to a live recording (especially guitar / vocals) would I be better off using compression or limiting?

I've read most of the posts on this board as well as sonusmans Compressor/Limiter web page but I'm still having trouble getting the sound right. With the compression I set it about 3:1 w/ attack at 5ms release at 750ms. I set the limiter at 50:1 with a faster release.

I think the problem lies in the compression threshold level. Either I have it at @ -3 and it doesn't seem to compress much or I set it at -15 and it "squashes" the mix. Settings in between make the sound vary as it alternates between compressed and non-compressed signals. There is a LED on the threshold - should it never be on? Blink on and off? Always be lit??

Can anyone help? Thanks.

zip

 

[Shailat]

Fullness and sustain are not the same thing.
Are you talking about compressing/Limiting both vocals and guitar at the same time?

If you want a sustain you will need to compress about 3:1 - 6:1
Short attack slow release (this is different from compressor to compressor).
Low threshold.
The attack time and the Threshold are what counts as to how lomg the sustain will be. This is typical for a guitar sustain so I'm not sure what you want for vocals.

 

[zip]

sorry - I wasn't clear...

This is an entire mix I'm talking about. It's a bootleg CD of a live concert I am remixing. The original mix had a ton of midrange w/ no bass - so I EQ'ed it.

I did one compression trial and it "beefed up" the vocals but it also took away a little mix brightness.

By low threshold do you mean in absolute value? (ie. -15 vs -3??)

Still a bit confused about the threshold setting.

zip

 

[Shailat]

Scratch what I wrote. I thought you wanted more sustain out of your guitar.

For a full mix some people prefer to compress some to limit but....this is done lightly. The moe you compress the more you will lose clarity as well as add backround noise.
The only way you can add some serious fullness with a compressor and not do to much damage to the overall sound would be to use a compressor chained with an Eq (use the search for more info), or use a multiband compressor.

Are you sure you need to compress ?
You may have Eq'ed the low- mids out a bit to much and left a hollow sound

Did you try a boost around 65-80Hz ? this can beef up your bottom with out clouding the vocals and guitar.

Threshold settings depend on what you want to achieve. You want a 3-6dB reduction at the strong parts of your track for a standard compression.
In rare cases should it be lit all the time.

 

[zip]

Cool man!

The low end is good - boosted at 80 and 60 Hz. I had to cut the HELL out of the mid....6 to 7 dB at 504Hz to get the tinny sound out. Q was about 1.3 to cut across 250 - 800Hz or so.

I'll try one lightly compressed and one with NO compression - burn em to a disc and check it out. Maybe my previous attempt just muddied up the mix.

By your comment about the LED - I'm assuming it should "blink" during the loud parts and you should target a 3 to 6 dB cut?

Thanks!

zip

 

[Shailat]

Check the "gain reduction" lights.
They should light up only on parts you want to compress.
For a full mix this should be 1 or 2 dB not more.
Light compression only !.

 

[zip]

Thanks Shailat!

Compressed at 2.5 to 1 and got a 2dB overall reduction with a threshold setting of -11.7. I then used the volume control to bring the signal back up 1.7dB. This sounded great and the overall level of the mix never got above -0.1dB on the meters.

I also tried a similar approach with a limiter set at 50:1 and it also sounded pretty good. Only problem there is when the bass / kick were loud within the track it seemed to squash them...maybe my ratio was too high.

Thanks for the help!

zip