beefing up the bass amp setup

[CoolCat]

Problem: Bass player using Fender 100 Rumble and its not loud enough at full volume.

At my disposal :

- Rumble has a line out

-and we have an old combomixer/pa head 400watt

How low of a speaker wattage can I go before its not going to "beef up" this setup?

in other words, will a 100watt 12 be ok or do I really need a 15" cab that can handle 400watts, for example?

what would be a good bass speaker cabinet for this extension 400watt head that is cheap?

thanks for any suggestions....

 

[ocnor]

I've ran a rumble 60 line out into a power amp and two 1x18 Community bass bins and it sounded pretty good. A 12" speaker will fart out too easily when you push it with 400 watts. A set of 15" or 18" speaker cabs is your best bet.

 

[CoolCat]

thanks, I'm no bass player, and the music wants a low end bass, Raggae.

havent found anything yet, one Peavy 15 sub woofer cab form a PA....<$250

another bass cab Crate, thing is brand new is $299 for cheap 400w.

this will be for bar sized gigs.

would a 200w combo be a huge difference or is staying with the 400wat pa head and a cab better?
any inputs are appreciated...

 

[moresound]

Reggie! Have the bass player get an SVT head and a V4 cabinet. He can purchase it from GC under that no interest no payments for 12 months - he can be saving for a year or less then pay it off.

 

[CoolCat]

you know, in hindsight, once a person actually makes it past the stage where they can play good enough that they'll be doing it for life.... an investment of $2,000 is probably a cheaper way to get a great setup, and save money over the years. But its always the beginner that, imo, doesnt have a job and cant get credit, and $2,000 might as well be $200,000 dollars.

cheaper-SVT pieces-
Ampeg SVT450H 450W Classic Series Head $750
Ampeg SVT-410HE Bass Enclosure $650

We're talking CL prices here,.. lol. thanks for the idea, I'll keep an eye out for used SVT stuff.

bass needs the power....i'm finding out.

to get the setup functional, I need a cab and will try the 400watt power amp extension coming from the 100w Rumble combo. if that sx then will have to do something else...

all I know is the Rumble/100 was full blast all night, for the entire gig, and couldnt hardly hear it.

 

[CoolCat]

GALLIEN-KRUEGER 1x15 bass cabinet (400W, 8ohm)
$200 obo

this seems to get closer?
a new $200 cab maybe?

Acoustic B115 250w 1x15 Bass Cabinet

or GC used
AMPEG SVT15E 1X15 300watt $200..... I think I'll go pickup the SVT and try it for a few days.
any inputs appreciated....

Updated- got a USED Ampeg SVT 350H head $199 (made in US) and 1x15" SVT15E cabinet $200 GC
30 day trial.

off to make some cables....and figure out how we can pay it off in 15 months no %..

 

[CoolCat]

Anyone have an input on the Ampeg 350H versus using a 400watt PA/mixer combo head?

Reading a lot of mixed reviews on the 350Head...(of course most are bad when compared to the hi-end SVT tube amp?)

The cabinet seems to be a done deal.

 

[CoolCat]

Acoustic amp

So far the Used system is doing fine. Still waiting for the side by side test by the actual bass player. Still reading and resisiting GAS

Came across this, Acoustic amp and its $125 cheaper and brand new. 200watt like Ampeg SVT350, is 200watt at 8ohm.

Any inputs appreciated.

 

[bruiser1964]

100 watts of solid state bass power is not alot for live gigs. You could as someone has suggested use it as a pre into a power amp and more speakers? any power amp / pa amp will do but if you chose pa speakers watch the horns 'cos they will fry
A 4x10 will actually move more air than a 15 cab and is generally a more useful setup.
Try before you buy... Ive gone through loads of bass cabs (Trace, Peavey, Ampeg) before settling on the one I like (SVT 410)
If you are swapping / mixing and matching watch out for impedence.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Reggie! Have the bass player get an SVT head and a V4 cabinet. He can purchase it from GC under that no interest no payments for 12 months - he can be saving for a year or less then pay it off.

nah man ..... that head's too heavy and kinda so-so.

Get something like a Mark bass head ...... 500 watts and around 9 lbs.
Since you want lows ..... try an Ampeg 410HLF cab. I have one that I run a SWR head into and it's pretty bad ass sounding. It's ported for a 5 string so it handles the deep lows really well.

and 100 watts or even 200 watts ain't gonna do it for very loud live gigs, especially if you want a lotta lows which suck power.
I use my SWR in bridge mode which gives me 500 watts into my 4ohm 410HLF and it's enough for any gig but it's definitely not TOO much.

 

[CoolCat]

The Fender Rumble 100 wasnt cutting it, as you noted. 100watt 2 10's.

At practice it did fine, but at the gigs it was invisible and this is only a three piece band so the bass is super critical.

I'm trying to help out a little and the help$$ has already gone from $200 to $450. ahaha the matching amp head seemed like a decent deal ?
15 months no interest at GC right now, so I'm trying to get something solid and am learning about bass rigs a little.

A comparison test is to go to thru the rumble side chain to a 400watt aux in on a combo mxer/pa head into a 15" cab.

versus the 200Watt Ampeg head/cab.

and unfortunately, the gig/live shows are the real test so it will take more time.

I've had good luck with Used Guitar amps but dont know about bass amps being used?
I dont even know the quality levels either...other than price.

its the old "I need great, but cheap gear, syndrome".

 

[Lt. Bob]

The Fender Rumble 100 wasnt cutting it, as you noted. 100watt 2 10's.

At practice it did fine, but at the gigs it was invisible and this is only a three piece band so the bass is super critical.

I'm trying to help out a little and the help$$ has already gone from $200 to $450. ahaha the matching amp head seemed like a decent deal ?
15 months no interest at GC right now, so I'm trying to get something solid and am learning about bass rigs a little.

A comparison test is to go to thru the rumble side chain to a 400watt aux in on a combo mxer/pa head into a 15" cab.

versus the 200Watt Ampeg head/cab.

and unfortunately, the gig/live shows are the real test so it will take more time.

I've had good luck with Used Guitar amps but dont know about bass amps being used?
I dont even know the quality levels either...other than price.

its the old "I need great, but cheap gear, syndrome".

I got my SWR SM400S used on ebay for $250 and it's a killer head.

Look .... the 400 watt PA head idea is a decent way to go for right now since you're trying to save some money.
By running the Rumbles line out you're still getting the tonality of a bass amp and 400 watts is enoug juice.
So I'd spend the money on a good cab first and go with the PA head until there's enough money for a new head.

 

[CoolCat]

good input... the amp head was a unplanned thing, and instead of 350watts, turns out its 200watts.
will try tonight with the line out. I found out the speaker cab isnt such a good deal either? I can get a brand new one for $50 more, if I read it right. $299 new minus 10% off is normal...$260 I paid $219 for used.

$199 for the head...but will keep looking for a 400watt range at the same price.

Theres an SWR Workingman 200watt combo thats $225 and it comes with 15" speaker, so I called on that but its CL, so no returns.

 

[Lt. Bob]

good input... the amp head was a unplanned thing, and instead of 350watts, turns out its 200watts.
will try tonight with the line out. I found out the speaker cab isnt such a good deal either? I can get a brand new one for $50 more, if I read it right. $299 new minus 10% off is normal...$260 I paid $219 for used.

$199 for the head...but will keep looking for a 400watt range at the same price.

Theres an SWR Workingman 200watt combo thats $225 and it comes with 15" speaker, so I called on that but its CL, so no returns.

I wouldn't go with 200 watts ...... it's just not that much louder than 100.
I know it seems like it must be since it's twice as much power but the general rule is that to get twice as loud requires 10 times as much power.
Now ..... there are other issues in play such as if you use different speakers with different efficiencies but no matter how you slice it ..... you need more juice for a modern bass sound at gigs than 200 watts.

So I would keep looking for at least 400 watts as you said.

 

[CoolCat]

Hooked up the 100 Rumble and the line out to the 400watt PA, going direct-in to amplifier and wow!! I think the combo of the Rumble 2x10 adding the new 15" is great.

the problem with the PA was crackling pots, but this setup I dont even need any knobs, just Line out to Amp In. The Rumble has the Line Out knob.

Very happy with results and very noticeable (and cheap). Turning the 400w/15cab off now makes the Rumble sound even worse, thin and empty....which just goes to say you can't go backwards.

Thanks for the inputs!

 

[CoolCat]

I got a bit of input to add-

on the Acoustic versus GK and Ampeg speaker cabs.
The sales rep said the Acoustic are particle board cabs and the Ampeg and GK 15" are plywood, the latter holding up better.
So he recommended the used Ampeg over the new Acoustic 15" cab.

The drummer heard the "improved-setup" and couldnt believe the difference either, its like a adding so much low-freq's to the Fender Rumble 2-10's, really cool.

the next gig should be interesting.