Beck, Clapton, Page

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  • BECK

    Votes: 31 40.8%
  • CLAPTON

    Votes: 19 25.0%
  • PAGE

    Votes: 26 34.2%

  • Total voters
    76
Page wrote some of the great songs / riffs of the 70s - but has he done anything since 1980 apart from remaster LZ albums?

remember The Firm ("I'm Radioactive")?

Here's a short list. Remember, you asked for it: :D

good list dude. East Bay Ray belongs in some category all by himself. always dug his shit, especially the thrashy stuff like on In God We Trust Inc. but in general his melodies were pretty awesome.
Greg Ginn was pretty revolutionary for his time... really choppy and atonal. and Robert Quine's playing on Blank Generation is sweet but I find his later session work to be a little wanky sometimes.

I'll give an honorable mention to Brian Setzer, but fuck, he's too good. I can't relate to him at all.

what about Rev. Horton Heat- the anti-Brian Setzer?

To add another "non-master" to the mix --- Neil Young...

Neil Young is your underdog pick?
 
Neil Young is your underdog pick?

My underdog pick...?

I'm just saying that he also plays sloppy and out of tune, but with tons of emotion and he is liked by a lot of people.
I like Neil and can appreciate his playing style...but I'm not saying he's my pick as my favorite guitarist, but I would rather listen to Neil Young all day long instead of more current Beck or Clapton, though I would listen to LZ and Page even more than Neil Young.
Clapton is just boring as shit these days...and Beck is maybe interesting for a couple of songs, just long enough to check out his playing skill, but then his tone starts to get on my nerves and he also goes off on weird tangents (yeah, I know "its genius" ;) ).
 
I like Neil and can appreciate his playing style...but I'm not saying he's my pick as my favorite guitarist, but I would rather listen to Neil Young all day long instead of more current Beck or Clapton...

i'd personally take Neil over any of the 3 "masters" in this poll, but i like a ton of shit that others consider "sloppy". i was just a little suprised to see him branded as a "non-master" being as how he's so revered by millions and all, but i see what you were getting at.

Jimmy Page was good for his time, but most Zep has been killed by the radio for me.
 
Greg Ginn was pretty revolutionary for his time... really choppy and atonal.
I love Black Flag a lot. They were one of my first tastes of punk and to this day I still listen to them all the time. But Ginn's leads are dumb. He really did just meander wherever and half the time, even before I knew anything about playing I was like, WTF is this guy doing? Love the songs, love the riffs, not a big fan of his lead style.


what about Rev. Horton Heat- the anti-Brian Setzer?

I've met him a few times, and he's such a fucking douche that I won't listen to anything he does. I don't give his music a second of listening. And that's me, a huge douche myself, saying that someone is a douche. That's how douchey Rev Horton Heat is.
 
And that's really it, ain't it. :)

Yeah. "He who is the biggest celebrity, wins." Celebrity might even be disassociated from talent, (aside from any "talent" that it might take to actually be a celebrity for any length of time). At a certain point, some players are "great" guitar players because they're famous guitar players, and it's not so much about how well they can play compared to others. The way their careers are marketed, their personal artistic choices. "To be a pop star, or not to be? That is the question."

Jeff Beck may have even had a more enjoyable career than the others, in spite of not selling as many records, or receiving the accolades. A relative lack of drama in his life compared to Clapton and Page, so it seems. I saw him play a few weeks ago, and he seemed to be having fun. There's a lot to be said for that, I think.

Outside of that, "good", "great"..."sucky"...it's all subjective.
 
No...not "celebrity". That's just about anyone who becomes a media darling and then it's all hype, and people who are not even real fans, end up getting into the hype.

Rather it's about connecting with the fans through the music on a larger scale. Neil Young does it...Ramones did it...Page still does it...
...Beck not so much...and AFA Clapton, he might be the only "celebrity" in the bunch, and with him I think these days it is mostly the hype the pushes. I'm not trying to slam Clapton, I use to really dig his early stuff, but he just became so tame with his playing and his tone.
 
Regardless of skill level, I think a band or performer's current relevance can be gauged by the general age of their fanbase. Old acts that can still draw a young crowd stay relevant, even if they're playing old shit. I don't know for sure, but I'd bet the crowd's average age at a Clapton or Jeff Beck gig isn't very young. That's due to the "connection" with their music. If it's sterile and dated, young people won't be interested. A young adult concert goer doesn't want to hear Layla. Younger people are drawn to the energy and coolness of a band or performer, while older people go for familiarity and to maybe to re-connect with their youth. People go see Clapton because they've liked him for 40 years. That's fine, but I don't think he's making any new fans. I saw AC/DC in 09, and while they're all near or over 60 years old, the crowd was generally young and there was 20,000 people there. It fucking rocked. The Ramones are mostly dead now, but I saw them 6 times, and their crowd was always young even as they approached 50. They still attract new fans posthumously. They might even be bigger than ever now. And I suspect Neil Young maintains a steady young-ish fanbase even though he's ancient, because his music is edgy and raw and slightly dangerous. There's no edge or rawness with Clapton or Beck. They're old and sound old. At least they still play though. I have no idea what Jimmy Page is up to besides one-song guest appearances for another band's encore.
 
I have no idea what Jimmy Page is up to besides one-song guest appearances for another band's encore.


jimmy_page.jpg


He's wating for the next Lord of the Rings episode...trying for the part of Gandalf the White...though he needs a beard. :D


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Wow, I had no IDEA the Yardbirds was such a huge band! You never saw Verlaine and Television, Johnny Thunders, Alvin Lee, Pete Townsend, John Maclaughlin, Carlos Santana, Ted Nugent (TED NUGENT??? Are You KINDDING me??),
Sterling Morrison, Tom Verlain, Richard Lloyd, Robert Quinne, Greg Ginn, East Ray Bay, and Neil Young on the album cover- I guess they were all just session musicians at the time, or maybe just "guested" with the 'Birds...:D

I mean, this IS a thread about guitarist that came out of the Yardbirds, right?:)
 
No...not "celebrity". That's just about anyone who becomes a media darling and then it's all hype, and people who are not even real fans, end up getting into the hype.

That's exactly what I mean by celebrity. It's not like the players can't "walk the walk"--I think they're all great guitar players. At a certain point, aside from music, what separates them is how much publicity they get, and who that publicity is directed at. It's a conscious decision to hire publicists and agents and managers. It's a conscious decision to tour. It can practically be guaranteed that for every Eric Clapton, there are dozens, if not hundreds of players that can tear it up just as good as he can--he's just more famous for tearing it up than they are. He connected with a bigger fan base, in part because he became a "media darling." Word of mouth alone isn't enough to generate that kind of fan base. You have to become a part of the machine, and being a media darling is a big part of that machine. That's how Taylor Swift wins "Best Vocalist" Grammys.
 
You can be popular and even somehwat famous without being a "celebrity".

Maybe I'm painting a thin line...but I'm focusing on what "celebrity" means these days....and it's often the real over-hyped types.

I don't think guys like Beck and Page and even Neil Young are over-hyped...whereas Clapton is somewhat.
I think people mostly go to see him these days not for the playing, but because he is "Clapton the celebrity"....and/or the other phrase that gets used a lot...an "icon".
Once you gain "icon" status...heck, you can drop a turd on stage and no one notices becuase they are seeing/hearing an "icon".
I guess it's like the pilgrimage to Lourdes....a religious experience so one can be cleansed of their sins! :D
 
I went to see Clapton because my wife was working at a radio station and got free tickets...

I don't listen to Eric Clapton. I like Layla though but mostly I think I like his Cream stuff. I like that cocaine song too, but i wouldn't buy it - I listen to it on the radio. Honestly - I can not even name a single Jeff Beck song... I have heard of him. The only band I have actually spent money on from the poll is Zepplin, cause they just kick ass.

When I was like 12 (circa 1982) I was listening to AC/DC, Ozzy, Zepplin and a few other "rock bands" - then I discovered the Clash and my taste broadened some. Then when I was about 15 or so someone gave me a Ramones tape (and I heard a black flag song at some camp ground in Dearborne MI, TV Party I think it was) and I bought the Black Flag Damaged Album... (An Awesome Album) After that I only listened to punk for a long time - it was great cause I had no idea that music even existed. Then I discovered this whole sub culture that I related to a hell of a lot more than popular culture. Nobody in my high school had a clue... I was always getting chased and getting crap thrown at me by the jocks for having a mohawk LOL I was like 120 lbs so wasn't too much I could do against half the varsity football team - anyway they were a bunch of dipshits.

Whatever
 
You can be popular and even somehwat famous without being a "celebrity".

Maybe I'm painting a thin line...but I'm focusing on what "celebrity" means these days....and it's often the real over-hyped types.

I don't think guys like Beck and Page and even Neil Young are over-hyped...whereas Clapton is somewhat.
I think people mostly go to see him these days not for the playing, but because he is "Clapton the celebrity"....and/or the other phrase that gets used a lot...an "icon".
Once you gain "icon" status...heck, you can drop a turd on stage and no one notices becuase they are seeing/hearing an "icon".
I guess it's like the pilgrimage to Lourdes....a religious experience so one can be cleansed of their sins! :D

I think I know what you mean. I think celebrity is just famous for being famous (or infamous). It has little or nothing to do with talent, or....anything.

Sometimes, it's by design. In the music industry? It's a huge part of the business model.

My guess is that if Jeff Beck stayed closer to pop music with lyrics, and did the other things necessary to at least try to sell boatloads of songs--both things well within his ability--he'd have sold more music, he'd have been a more famous celebrity, and more widely known as being a "better" guitar player than either Clapton or Page, if not just more widely known. Just a "what if?" kinda thing....
 
I went to see Clapton because my wife was working at a radio station and got free tickets...

I don't listen to Eric Clapton. I like Layla though but mostly I think I like his Cream stuff. I like that cocaine song too, but i wouldn't buy it - I listen to it on the radio. Honestly - I can not even name a single Jeff Beck song... I have heard of him. The only band I have actually spent money on from the poll is Zepplin, cause they just kick ass.

When I was like 12 (circa 1982) I was listening to AC/DC, Ozzy, Zepplin and a few other "rock bands" - then I discovered the Clash and my taste broadened some. Then when I was about 15 or so someone gave me a Ramones tape (and I heard a black flag song at some camp ground in Dearborne MI, TV Party I think it was) and I bought the Black Flag Damaged Album... (An Awesome Album) After that I only listened to punk for a long time - it was great cause I had no idea that music even existed. Then I discovered this whole sub culture that I related to a hell of a lot more than popular culture. Nobody in my high school had a clue... I was always getting chased and getting crap thrown at me by the jocks for having a mohawk LOL I was like 120 lbs so wasn't too much I could do against half the varsity football team - anyway they were a bunch of dipshits.

Whatever

Lol. Yeah my mom bought me my first Ramones album for my 11 or 12th birthday thinking she was getting me "The Romantics". Lol. Remember those fags? Anyway, pandoras box had been opened. I discovered punk rock and never listened to the radio again. Crap like Van Halen and Iron Maiden became immediately irrelevant. I had her dragging me all over town to obscure record stores. She didn't really like band names like Circle Jerks and Sex Pistols and Dead Kennedys and SubHumans and The Damned, but I liked it, and mom was cool. :D
 
Lol. Yeah my mom bought me my first Ramones album for my 11 or 12th birthday thinking she was getting me "The Romantics". Lol. Remember those fags? Anyway, pandoras box had been opened.

Oh, man, I can relate to that! My mom bought me The Velvet Underground and Nico when I was about the same age (yeah, I've got a bit more life experience than you, Greg. And yeah, I called you Greg!) She certainly must have not known or noticed it had songs on it like "Heroin." That experience warped my psyche, I can tell you!
 
Wow, I had no IDEA the Yardbirds was such a huge band!
A kind of side saddle to this thread is in fact, the Yardbirds. In the NME encyclopaedia of rock, circa 1976, the writer on the Yardbird entry said "in retrospect the Yardbirds were the prototype of both the guitar dominated and heavy metal psychedelic bands of the later 60s and early 70s. Their status as one of the truly legendary rock bands is beyond question".
The two key words in that are "in retrospect". They were never regarded that way while they were an active band. Jeff Beck wasn't a well known player before he joined them. Nor was Clapton. He became well known and had people graffiti'ing "Clapton is God" on London walls while he was with Mayall's Bluesbreakers. As earlier stated, Page joined the band as a bass player. When he was first approached to replace old Clappers, he said forget it ! The Yardbirds only really picked up this legendary status after Zeppelin were huge and then people remembered that Cream had been huge and then the Faces got huge and people remembered Ronnie Wood and Rod Stewart were in the Jeff Beck group and that Beck had been a Yardbird.......
A few years ago, I was doing a delivery and the receptionist signed for the goods as something Samwell~Smith. So jokingly, I asked her if she was related to the Samwell Smith that was bassist with the Yardbirds {the one Page replced} and she said it was her Dad. She was flabbergasted that anyone in the 21st century had heard of her Dad or remembered he played in the Yardbirds.
Keith Relf's memory centres around death by electrocution, not lead singer of that band. If one is into photography from the 70s, one might have heard of Chris Dreja. But not in connection with the Yardies. And how many people have you ever heard rate Jim McCarty's drumming ?
Far from being this wonderful finishing school for wizard guitarists from the mid 60s, they were a walking disaster that rarely got it together to make a decent record and the fact that Clapton, Beck and Page all put together their own outfits (Cream, Beck group and Zeppelin) in the aftermath of their tenure with said Yardies, tells you something deep and immense. It makes good rock mythology to hold the Yardies in such high esteem, but on the London mid 60s blues rock scene, there was quite a bit of 'depping' and movement among bands. That Clappers was in the band is no big deal {he left when they released a pop single}. Page being asked to replace him is no big thing, given that he was a well known session man.
And that, as they say, is that !
 
But again, it's the song, and the context, that makes the thing special, if it is special,
Yeah, that's my take on it. I can appreciate lots of good playing in songs I don't like but even simplistic lame playing in a song I dig is elevated beyond the 'great' playing in one I don't like. The great playing to be honest, is irrelevant to me and plays no part in my life if I don't like the song.

Yes, exactly. They played leads within the scope of the song. Not as an afterthought or on top of the song.
I remember seeing Glen Tipton and KK Downing of Judas Priest being interviewed about the 'British Steel' album and they remarked that their lead guitar parts were as much part of the songs as the riffs, melodies and lyrics, to the extent that fans would moan if they changed them in gigs.
I find a good solo or lead that has been 'added as an afterthought' {like I can even tell !} is good precisely because it's within the scope of the song. Mind you, it's hard to get into the players'/writers' heads sometimes to know what the scope is or how far one will allow it to be taken !

Ace Frehley/Angus Young - Both of these guys are important to me as lead players because they're accessible.
It always used to irritate me, the way critics wrote about Angus Young and Francis Rossi's guitar playing and songwriting because to me, they were particularly melodic and musical guitarists but who could rock and added such greatness to already great songs. I love complex head music, no doubt. But I also love simple pop and heavy rock was often 'simple'. I often take issue with those that equate simplicity with inferiority or for that matter, complexity with boringness. Both can be great. Or relatively shitty.
honestlly, all this "who's the best guitarist?" crap is like judging who's the best at hammering in nails....
The best nail hammerer is without a shadow of a doubt, "Pre~flight Stan". :D
 
So, all those people, and many, many more, were, in a sense, "part" of the Yardbirds- or more accurately, the Yardbirds were a part of them. Whodathunkit?
 
Mum Rock -- my mum bought me Ry Cooder's Chicken Skin Music, BS's SabbathBloodySabbath, The Ramones It's Alive and Leonard Cohen's Live Songs (69). She had no idea what she was buying, I think she liked the covers. I wasn't displeased with any of them.
 
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