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[FrankD77]

After adding the ENGL 920 i can use my cab easily again besides the captor X so time to add the mics.

It's a marshall cab with blackbacks
At the moment setup with a AT2035 and MXR R144

Testing tomorrow
Set them up pretty accurate, if needed which allignment software do you guys use ?

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

I don't have anything to add regarding alignment software - but I did want to point out that, imo, the AT2035 is probably one of the most overlooked killer-bang-for-the-buck microphones available today. It's been a while since I did the testing - but years ago I tested a bunch of LDC's against each other - some were my own, others borrowed - mostly on vocals and acoustic gtr - and it more than held it's own against mics that were significantly more expensive and supposedly of higher quality. I was amazed at how it stacked up given that you can get one new for $150. (Sorry for the diversion)

 

[FrankD77]

No problem and totally agree.
Also the marantz ribbon and MXR r144 are well worth their price. I love ribbons mixed with an more full range condensor.

Super fat and intense.

 

[Track Rat]

Right now I'm in love with a Royer R10 and a 57 that I boiled the transformer out of. Very creamy good.

 

[FrankD77]

Can imagine that. It's the combo i use a lot in genome.

In real life a bit out of my price range for a hobby.

 

[rob aylestone]

Why are you making this so complicated? Software? No. Ears!

Seriously, converting sound energy into electrical energy is never transparent, and then converting it again is even worse. The physics is complex, but ALL guitar cabs are soooo different to monitor or hifi speakers. They are designed to mangle the sound in a musically pleasant way. Think of them like an effects unit. 8 x 10” in a huge bass cab, or 1 12” in a pretty poor acoustic designed cabinet. Then the speaker gets modified in the way it is wound or how stiff the cone is. The miking of a cab then changes it yet again. Mellow near the centre, harder near the edges. The variables are huge. So all you do experiment. In commercial studios, until you hear the guitar, the email you have with the details gives you no clue as to what the player wants. You guess, based on the last similar setup and player. They don’t like it.you try to convert words to a sound. “It’s not dishy enough?” What does that mean? If you have placed the 57 on the centre, move it away and repeat. If it gets better for the player, not you, but not perfect, swap the mic to one that will enhance the change. Software might make the changes easier to do as you dont have to keep physically moving stuff around, but it’s like constantly trying different tyres on your car when the real issue is the track rod ends are shot. Guitar and bass cabs sound absolutely terrible if you put music through them. Really low fi. Super quality mics do not do much, there’s no actually quality there to capture. You need a mic that compliments whatever horribleness the player prefers. That is why DI’ing is out for many people. They don’t want the sound that comes out of the instrument, they want the end sound, and that includes everything that changes the guitar sound.

 

[FrankD77]

Why are you making this so complicated? Software? No. Ears!

Seriously, converting sound energy into electrical energy is never transparent, and then converting it again is even worse. The physics is complex, but ALL guitar cabs are soooo different to monitor or hifi speakers. They are designed to mangle the sound in a musically pleasant way. Think of them like an effects unit. 8 x 10” in a huge bass cab, or 1 12” in a pretty poor acoustic designed cabinet. Then the speaker gets modified in the way it is wound or how stiff the cone is. The miking of a cab then changes it yet again. Mellow near the centre, harder near the edges. The variables are huge. So all you do experiment. In commercial studios, until you hear the guitar, the email you have with the details gives you no clue as to what the player wants. You guess, based on the last similar setup and player. They don’t like it.you try to convert words to a sound. “It’s not dishy enough?” What does that mean? If you have placed the 57 on the centre, move it away and repeat. If it gets better for the player, not you, but not perfect, swap the mic to one that will enhance the change. Software might make the changes easier to do as you dont have to keep physically moving stuff around, but it’s like constantly trying different tyres on your car when the real issue is the track rod ends are shot. Guitar and bass cabs sound absolutely terrible if you put music through them. Really low fi. Super quality mics do not do much, there’s no actually quality there to capture. You need a mic that compliments whatever horribleness the player prefers. That is why DI’ing is out for many people. They don’t want the sound that comes out of the instrument, they want the end sound, and that includes everything that changes the guitar sound.

Agree in a commercial setting
For me it's hobby and although I 100% agree on using ears now a days you can use plugins, or like I'm using vintage rack gear. I love recording my fx on a different track

Phase issues are popping up also in that case so stopped doing that and just bounce/freeze.

when i started adding the mics i was wondering what was possible now a days with software and in all honesty i think it should be part of the daw.

In the end i don't know what I'm going to use just want to have it under my belt to get it perfect and for the FX track it would save me some time.

 

[Papanate]

After adding the ENGL 920 i can use my cab easily again besides the captor X so time to add the mics.

It's a marshall cab with blackbacks
At the moment setup with a AT2035 and MXR R144

Testing tomorrow
Set them up pretty accurate, if needed which allignment software do you guys use ?
View attachment 151874

I do it by ear and nudging the tracks a couple of ticks if need be.

 

[Papanate]

Phase issues are popping up also in that case so stopped doing that and just bounce/freeze.

IMO Something must be whonky in your method/setup/Microphones if you are getting phase issues all the time - the only time I remember getting any alignment issues was when I recorded a whole band with mics - and even then it was really minor.

 

[FrankD77]

Maybe I did not explain it correctly.
When using a ruler I'm almost spot on with position the mics.
And indeed listen en nudge. It's not a big deal and can even work nice with some detune and a light pan L/R.

I'm however also experimenting with something else.
I mostly use external FX gear.
And on a bus that's no problem at all with the IO plugin
As an insert also no problem.
However I tried to record my FX separate from the insert and that's when you get a lot of issues which is also different per device.
It's not something you would normally do, but if it works it's great to be able to change the mix of FX later or change it completely.
Especially my 2101 I like to use on different programs in a track, and without recording the FX separate it's a matter of commit or not

 

[rob aylestone]

One mic is great. Two mics on one source always cause weird issues, and frankly, what's the point? "In a commercial setting?" That doesn't mean anything - if you have two mics and the time to experiment, then commercially, that might cost a client extra - but in your own studio. time maybe free. I really like 10" speakers for my bass and guitars - but the 2 x 10" cab sounds nicest - the 8 x 10" is the most impressive - but the problems you get with multiple mics are really the same as why adding speakers changes things.

 

[FrankD77]

It's all hobby.
If I want it easy I'll use the captor X

Blending mics can give amazing results. But i agree one should sound great to start

 

[RFR]

One mic is great. Two mics on one source always cause weird issues, and frankly, what's the point? "In a commercial setting?" That doesn't mean anything - if you have two mics and the time to experiment, then commercially, that might cost a client extra - but in your own studio. time maybe free. I really like 10" speakers for my bass and guitars - but the 2 x 10" cab sounds nicest - the 8 x 10" is the most impressive - but the problems you get with multiple mics are really the same as why adding speakers changes things.

I’ve always liked a 57 on one speaker, and a condenser (mostly 414) for the room. For me, blending the mics on two separate channels has always given me a good sound very simply.

 

[ecc83]

I was messing about with amps and trying to record my son on guitar many, many years ago with very limited equipment. We never really got a sound HE was happy with! But over the years and reading countless threads like this one I have formed some theories?

As Rob says, from a sound quality point of view, guitar amps and especially speakers are ***T! The result of all that badness IN THE ROOM, however translates to a sound similar to what we are conditioned to hearing from the rock stars of the day...and that last is of primary importance. WHO or what do you want to sound like? If you don't have some idea as to what "tone" you are striving for...hiding to nothing.

Question: why does everyone put a mic (at least one anyway) mm away from the speaker fret? Even touching it sometimes? Several reasons IMHO none of which make much sense for recording.

1) That is historically where the mics are when we see videos of our rock hero but surely, the mics are mainly there to pickup amp output and reduce spill from drum kit AND to get a hefty signal to beat acoustic feedback. You don't play your guitar lying flat on your back with ear up against the cab? You mess with the amp controls to get something close to the desired sound FROM AT LEAST TWO MTRS away in most cases. Why then would we think THAT sound is still the same 4mm from the speaker?
2) Many home recordists cannot run their kit at live 'pub' levels and so put the mics closer to a quieter source (maybe with a power soak?) to get a decent level.
3) Most rooms are acoustically ***t! Therefore, very close mic'ing is a quick fix. Better would be to disport some duvets and blankets.

It is well known I think that recording and acoustic guitar with a mic attached and 5mm from the sound hole, gives a poor result? Worse are piezo pups. No, for a quality recording the mics are no closer than say 300mm and often 3 times that. Maybe try that for cabs?

Dave.

 

[elly-d]

I don't know if it has been posted before, but the video on youtube of Steve Albini explaining how he records Bass and Guitar amps is very worth a watch.

 

[FrankD77]

The main issue is that a miced cab will almost always sound bad with dirty tones. This is where eq and for example a de esser can work miracles.

If you listen to a dynIR or own hammer raw capture you would not expect that to work. Add some processing and there it is.

For me the main problem is a sort of hollow sound. I've now added isolation on the floor and switched to 6cm distance for a sm57 clone and the 2035 both on the sides of the dustcab.

Stunning clean sounds (great cab) dirty sounds are ok but after some eq I'm more than happy next step is some different mics probably a ribbon from the end of the iso box to blend it in