Audio Interface with 4 preamps for Windows (USB)

[Navin Advani]

I am a newbie and am looking for a simple to use Audio Interface (as well as a simple DAW) that has 4 mic/instrument level preamps. My budget is $300-400.

So far I have shortlisted these (4 preamp inputs and 2 headphone outputs in the front) :

1. Roland Rubix 44 USB (comes with Abelton Live Lite) $300
2. Steinberg UR44 (comes with Cubase AI) $300
3. Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 (comes with Abelton Live Lite) $350
4. PreSonus Studio 1810 (comes with Studio One Artist) $400

I am quite sure I will not need to extra expandability offered by ADAT and I have no idea what SPDIF even is. Hence I don't know if I should spend the $50-100 more on the Focusrite 18i8 or PreSonus 1810

1. Which of these is recommended for the ease of install, least crashes/fewest bugs, and a quick learning curve?
3. Which of these has the fewest known driver issues with Windows 10?
5. Which of these comes with the best software bundle?
7. I am leaning towards the Steinberg UR44 as it is has 2 extra 1/4" line inputs in the rear (what would these be used for)? Why would one need 6 outputs (4 line and 2 main) provided by the UR44?
9. Should I be looking at something else? Other than the 4 listed?

Thanks.
Navin

 

[Deleted member 196982]

Line inputs would be used for keyboards, or could be used with a DI out from a bass amp, multiFX/modeler line out, mixer, etc. Depends what you think you'll want to do.

ADAT is kind of insurance for that time you need more than 4 mic inputs. I've used it a couple times with my F'rite, and the Behr ADA8200 was something less than $200, so a lot cheaper than buying another interface, and well, that wouldn't have been enough because I really needed more than 8 mic pres. IOW, don't discount its value, unless you know it's really a "never gonna need it" thing.

These pieces are more-or-less all in competition with each other so you can assume they're not all that different at the component level IMO. What matters is support and help for your specific situation when you can't figure something out. Ongoing driver support for older OS's will likely matter as they move on but I'd say many of us try to keep our recording environments stable so are often running an OS release behind the very latest.

I started with a single pre Roland and I think it still works, though the friend I gave it to no longer uses it. I'm on a Focusrite, and really like it. I think if I was shopping now I'd honestly look at upping my budget into their Clarett range, though and get T-bolt or USB 3.0 capability. Otherwise you might look at a (make sure it's v2 for the gain pot taper and driver support) used one - plenty out there. Never used Steinberg or Presonus but they have been around for a while and have their supporters, so read reviews and find folks with a configuration like yours to see if they've had any issues.

 

[ecc83]

Hi Navin,
As Keith says, there is really little to chose electronically between the "famous" makes and I would not worry too much about the bundled DAW software? For one reason there is SO much free stuff about now and for another, there is NO such thing as a "simple" DAW! They all stand some considerable time and effort to use.

I have a bit of thing about "MIDI"! I don't consider an AI "proper" without it. You are boggled by "S/PDIF"? It is a two channel digital connection. Most often found as two, in and out, RCA sockets, usually called "co ax" but some AIs have an optical version instead/as well as.

S/PDIF can be useful. E.g if you have your 4 analogue ins used up you could feed in a CD player as well. Many of the better synths have digital out as do most TVs* and DVD recorder/players...Lots of kit has digital.

*My JVC 42" TV feeds a surround sound DVD unit (£25 charity shop!) via optical S/PDIF and to my surprise not only do off air proggs come through but so do all my HDMI connected HDD/DVD machines. Reesult!

Dave.

 

[Navin Advani]

Line inputs would be used for keyboards, or could be used with a DI out from a bass amp, multiFX/modeler line out, mixer, etc. Depends what you think you'll want to do.

These pieces are more-or-less all in competition with each other so you can assume they're not all that different at the component level IMO. What matters is support and help for your specific situation when you can't figure something out. .

I have a bit of thing about "MIDI"! I don't consider an AI "proper" without it. You are boggled by "S/PDIF"? It is a two channel digital connection. Most often found as two, in and out, RCA sockets, usually called "co ax" but some AIs have an optical version instead/as well as.

S/PDIF can be useful. E.g if you have your 4 analogue ins used up you could feed in a CD player as well.
Dave.

Thank you Keith and Dave,

I got the UR44 yesterday. 2 friends I talked to recommended it over the Focusrite as they have heard of fewer Windows driver issues (in Mumbai, India) with the Steinberg units than the Focusrite.

I was in a rush as I realized later in the evening that Thursday might be a public holiday so I would get some time to install and play with it. Local cost (in India) just a hair under $300. I wont have SPDIF for now but that should be ok.

I will first try the Cubase software that comes with it and if that is not adequate will look at other DAWs - Reaper is something I would like to try.

Thanks so much for your time but my take is that you can only learn so much from a forum, you learn a lot more from actually doing.

 

[ecc83]

Navin, either I/we did not properly understand your original question or, you have bought the wrong interface!

You asked about " AIs with 4 MIC/line inputs". Most of your original selection have that but the UR44 has only TWO mic/line ins and two further line inputs.

Bottom line: Do you want to run up to four microphones at a time? If not fine. If so and you cannot change the order (you could here very easily) a get out is a small mixer and I can recommend the Soundcraft 8FX.

Good idea to "just dive in", there is nothing you can break. However, to save yourself some time and hair...Make sure the drivers are correct, best to download the latest version from Steinberg. Read the setup instructions and FOLLOW THEM TO THE LETTER!

Modern PCs are pretty accommodating these days, nothing much you HAVE to do but I would at least turn off all Windows Sounds, those infernal bleeps and bongs.

Cubase will certainly be "adequate" but you might find it a struggle? People vary in what they find intuitive but generally the very first DAW you learn the foibles of tends to stick then all the others seem oddly difficult!

Rock on,
Dave.

 

[Navin Advani]

You asked about " AIs with 4 MIC/line inputs".

Bottom line: Do you want to run up to four microphones at a time?

Make sure the drivers are correct, best to download the latest version from Steinberg. Read the setup instructions and FOLLOW THEM TO THE LETTER! Modern PCs are pretty accommodating these days, nothing much you HAVE to do but I would at least turn off all Windows Sounds, those infernal bleeps and bongs.

Cubase will certainly be "adequate" but you might find it a struggle?

Thanks Dave.

I am looking to record a maximum of 2 guitars (Acoustic with built in preamp, Electric or Electric bass) and 2 mics with the remote possibility of adding a keyboard later. I hope/assume the UR44's front panel can accommodate this.

Hence I asked for "4 mic/instrument" level preamp inputs. The 2 line level inputs at the back of the UR44 will give me the option of adding the keyboard or drum machine or some other device later.

Yes I would have preferred if the rear of the UR44 had 4 line inputs, 2 line outputs and 2 main outputs instead of 2 line inputs, 4 line outputs and 2 main outputs I don't think I would find an interface that has everything I want. We all want the moon, right?

I assume the line outputs are fixed level and the main outputs are variable level. I still don't know what I need 4 (fixed level) line outputs for but will worry about that later.

My next step will be looking for some small budget powered/active monitor speakers (4.5-5" woofer) that I can wall mount. My current list is this:

1. Emotiva Airmotiv 4s / 5s
2. Yamaha HS5
3. Adam F5s
4. Tannoy Reveal 502

I assume I can just plug these active speakers into the main output of the UR44 and get them to play. The Volume will be controlled by the UR44.

 

[ecc83]

BIG OOPS!! On my part! The UR44 DOES have 4 mic inputs on its front. All four can also be line ins (1-4) but only 1&2 are "Hi Z" instrument inputs. Now peeps sometimes get confused by this? The ONLY thing that need a high, ~1meg Ohm, impedance input is the passive electric guitar*. Keyboards, drum macines, tape, just about anything else goes happily into a LINE input.

On the output side, the multiplicity means that you "could" send a signal from say ch3 and return it to ch4 after processing with an outboard effects device such as reverb or compression but leave us K.I.S.Sir for now eh'?

Yes, active monitors will go from the Main Outs (1&2) and you can use TRS-TRS or TRS-XLR as you please. Always best to keep that connection balanced.

I see the Tannoys are on your list? I have had a pair of 5As for some years and am very happy with them, but. Monitor technology has advanced mightily in 5 yrs (well, the top end tech' now reaches us mortals!) and of your list I would go Adam and they have a "budget" monitor, the T7V that gets a very good report in Sound on Sound Aug 2018.

Do not forget to set some budget aside for room treatment!

*The passive peizo acoustic is another but really needs a much higher impedance than most AIs give in the order of 5 to 10 meg. There are specialist V hiZ pres around but most are very pricey. If you can solder you can make one for peanuts.

Dave.

 

[Kleudde]

I tried both the presonus and the focusrite. They both did good job. The Focusrite was easier to install, worked right away with the driver that came with it. The presonus one I had to upgrade the firmware, download newer driver, change usb cord and restart a few times before it worked so for the easiest to install I would recommend Focusrite.
I haven't tried the other two on your list. The Presonus one I was renting it so it was really cheap. I bought the Focusrite cheap too since it was used (it's not the v2 but i'm ok with it).

 

[Navin Advani]

All four can also be line ins (1-4) but only 1&2 are "Hi Z" instrument inputs. Now peeps sometimes get confused by this? The ONLY thing that need a high, ~1meg Ohm, impedance input is the passive electric guitar*.

I would go Adam and they have a "budget" monitor, the T7V that gets a very good report in Sound on Sound Aug 2018.

Do not forget to set some budget aside for room treatment!

*The passive peizo acoustic is another but really needs a much higher impedance than most AIs give in the order of 5 to 10 meg. There are specialist V hiZ pres around but most are very pricey. If you can solder you can make one for peanuts.

Yesterday I was also recommended a Emotiva active speaker with a 4.5" woofer and a JBL (I think it is the LSR 305). We still have to listen to these speakers so will take a call after we listen to a few.

One question: My son's desktop currently has a "PC multimedia" 2.1 speaker system (Creative T6 ZiiSound) already. The UR44 is connected via USB to the PC. Can the sound from the PC be directed to the "PC Multimedia" speakers? This will mean that we only need 1 pair of speakers to serve the UR44 as well as the PC (used for YouTube Videos, gaming etc.). We would need to get a nice sound card and better speakers than the existing Creative T6 but it would still mean one 1 pair instead of 2 pairs (one connected to the PC and another connected to the UR44).

My son does have an Acoustic guitar that has a piezo pickup but he will be first sending that signal to a LR Baggs Acoustic Preamp and then to the UR44. So this should resolve any impedance mismatch between the piezo and the UR44.

We are also looking for a value for money microphone to record vocals. Options so far are:
Audio Technica AT2035 $175 locally.
AKG P420 about $220 locally
Shure Beta 58A about $260 locally
Rode NT1 Kit (with SMR Shock Mount) about $300 but comes with a shock mount and screen
AKG C214 about $330 locally (comes with an aluminum case) - leaning towards this or the Rode above.

The room treatment might be an issue. We are using my son's bedroom (we live in a small apartment) and my wife might not permit us covering the walls in RPG diffusers or egg crate.

 

[ecc83]

The 2.1 speaker system seems to be Blue tooth? If so I doubt you can feed it from the UR44. Had it been the old wired setup. i.e. a stereo feed to an active sub woofer and then feeds to active satellite speakers The 44 could have been rigged to feed sub and the sub feed the monitors.
I suggest you get some good monitors and use those for "serious" work on the UR44 and leave the 2.1 system intact, as is for "playtime"? There should be no problem just leaving the Creative system with its dongle running. The AI will run ASIO drivers and should not affect, nor be affected by the 2.1 setup.

Microphones? That I shall leave to others with vastly more experience. I will say I like an SDC for acoustic guitar (or two!)

Room treatment. For monitoring and mixing you are mainy concerned with killing LF room modes and smoothing the bass response. That is best achieved with corner bass traps, corners floor to ceiling and/or ceiling/wall junction. The latter especially are out of the way. Push come to shove, just get some bags of GF or Rockwool and pile them in corners and anywhere you can, under bed, back of chairs, atop wardrobes...No need to open the bags.

For recording, you need to kill reflections in the room and this can be a temporary rig. Duvets, blankets front and back of singer, you are trying to stop sound coming back into the mic.

Dave.

 

[Deleted member 196982]

For vocals, a large diaphragm condenser (LDC) is usually the first pick, though one of those will work best with some kind of minimal treatment to damp room reflections, since they'll pick up everything and while you may not notice those little tiny reflections when you're talking, you will be driven batty by them in the recorded tracks. That RØDE NT1 has good reviews (better than the NT1a IIRC) and if it comes with a suspension mount and pop filter, probably a good place to start. You'll want the latter for any LDC (IMO). That type of mic also works for acoustic guitar though it's easy to get a very boomy recording without some more attention to placement, and maybe more room treatment.

The temporary treatments described by [MENTION=89697]ecc83[/MENTION] are usually good enough for recording acoustic instruments and vocals at normal ranges and levels. At the top/bottom end of the spectrum and at loud volumes something more heavy and probably permanent are necessary. Bass traps for bass instruments (duh), and if mixing, probably going to help more than you'll realize until you actually have them.

I agree that getting a set of actual monitors for mixing is better. Keep the other system for a kind of secondary playback, or validation, point to make sure the mix you come up with on monitors "translates" to other outputs, including earbuds, headphones, PC speakers, etc.

Good luck!

 

[Navin Advani]

The 2.1 speaker system seems to be Blue tooth?

I suggest you get some good monitors and use those for "serious" work on the UR44 and leave the 2.1 system intact, as is for "playtime"?

Microphones? That I shall leave to others with vastly more experience. I will say I like an SDC for acoustic guitar (or two!)

For recording, you need to kill reflections in the room and this can be a temporary rig. Duvets, blankets front and back of singer, you are trying to stop sound coming back into the mic..

Thanks Dave,

The 2.1 system is wired to the PC. My idea was to toss it or use it elsewhere and get a better 2.1 active monitor system and connect the new system to the guitar and monitor the guitar.

Sweetwater has recommended the sE Electronics X1 S Studio Bundle over the Rode or AKG options I was considering. sE Electronics X1 S Studio Bundle | Sweetwater

Am working to make some screens that we an move away when not in use to absorb early reflections.

 

[ecc83]

Thanks Dave,

The 2.1 system is wired to the PC. My idea was to toss it or use it elsewhere and get a better 2.1 active monitor system and connect the new system to the guitar and monitor the guitar.

Sweetwater has recommended the sE Electronics X1 S Studio Bundle over the Rode or AKG options I was considering. sE Electronics X1 S Studio Bundle | Sweetwater

Am working to make some screens that we an move away when not in use to absorb early reflections.

Personally I would rather spend as much as I could on really good monitors and not have a sub but others might disagree.

The bundle looks fine. From reviews I have read the reflection filter works but is not magic! It does about as much as a duvet on a frame would do but is of course rather more convenient and elegant! Do not forget, MOST of the "bad sound" get into the FRONT of the mic, over your shoulder so earmark a screen for that.

The screens. What were you thinking? Best bet is a frame of 100mm wide timber (by ~20mm) with the space filled with GF or rockwool. Hold in place with chicken wire and tart up with a suitable open weave cloth. Being an inveterate "gadget guy" I would use the frames as convenient devices to hold XLR boxes and mains diss strips. Keeps cables neat and safe.

Dave.

 

[Navin Advani]

That RØDE NT1 has good reviews ..probably a good place to start.
.
I agree that getting a set of actual monitors for mixing is better.

Ok so I should choose between the Rode NT1 and sE Electronics X1 S and ignore the AKG C214?

Personally I would rather spend as much as I could on really good monitors and not have a sub

Do not forget, MOST of the "bad sound" get into the FRONT of the mic, over your shoulder so earmark a screen for that.

The screens. What were you thinking? .

The reason to get a sub was to maybe get 3" monitors (due to limited desk space) and a subwoofer for the LF.

I was hoping to make a small box like the one in the video below to be kept on my desk when the mic is in use.
YouTube

and make some floor standing screens (see picture below) that can be behind the vocalist and can be folded and kept away when not in use

 

[ecc83]

I am willing to be proved wrong but I don't know of any speakers with 3" cones that can be remotely called "monitors"?

There are the very wee co-incident Genelecs but they are fiercely expensive. I will have a look around but am pretty sure a 4" (100mm) woofer is about the smallest true monitor. You can always check LF on headphones.

Note, it is not that a sib is a bad thing although it needs to be properly integrated with the small speakers and carefully positioned. Subs fill in the lowest octave that even high end small monitors cannot reach for sound physics reasons but they are not vital.

The screens need to be absorbent, 1/8" of fluff on a board won't cut it.

Dave.

 

[ecc83]

I am wrong, sort of! There ARE 3 inch speakers purporting to be monitors by Alesis, M-Audio and others but they all look "plasticy, PC meeja speakers and are mostly sub $200pr.

The best of the bunch perhaps are the Genelec 6010s but in the SoS review 2009 even they are not really given a green light as serious mixing monitors.

The choice seems to be, tiny, compromised AV speakers or something 4" or bigger* and make other arrangements to position them. My Tannoy 5As e.g. are wall mounted on speaker brackets, higher than my seated lugs but angled down. This is done so that the rear ports are not too close to the wall. Still not ideal by some peoples lights but "when the devil drives....."?

*And if decent bass is wanted I would go 5" to 8". Not because bigger cones necessarily give more bass but for a given cut off frequency a bigger speaker will have greater power handling and maximum SPL. That of course assumes "all else is equal"? Rarely is!

Dave.

 

[Navin Advani]

I will have a look around but am pretty sure a 4" (100mm) woofer is about the smallest true monitor.

Subs fill in the lowest octave that even high end small monitors cannot reach for sound physics reasons but they are not vital.

The screens need to be absorbent, 1/8" of fluff on a board won't cut it.

Dave.

Given that most of this work involves mixing guitars and vocals I thought a small monitor might cut it. The Genele 8010A are good but very, very, expensive. Let me see if I can wrangle a good price for them. Otherwise I might have to choose between the
M-Audio Studiophile AV32.1 (never heard them) or AudioEngine A2+ S8 (heard the A5+ without subwoofer but not the A2+)

The best of the bunch perhaps are the Genelec 6010s but in the SoS review 2009 even they are not really given a green light as serious mixing monitors.

The choice seems to be, tiny, compromised AV speakers or something 4" or bigger* and make other arrangements to position them. My Tannoy 5As e.g. are wall mounted on speaker brackets, higher than my seated lugs but angled down. This is done so that the rear ports are not too close to the wall. Still not ideal by some peoples lights but "when the devil drives....."?

I am also going to wall mount the speakers and would love to have space for the Yamaha HS5 (or even the JBL LSR 305 or Audioengine A5+ ) but I think a 4" like the Tannoy Reveal 402 or ADAM A3x might be biggest I can accommodate.

BTW do you mean the Genelec 8010A?

 

[mjbphotos]

The only reason to have a sub as part of your monitor system in a 'starter' studio is if you are doing hip-hop/beats with a lot of low end. Without proper trapping, the sub is not going to give you a good balanced frequency response in your room. 3" and 4" 'monitors' usually crap out below 100Hz. Look for some 5" speakers with frequency response down to the low 40s. That's why I went with JBL LSR305s.

On the reflection filter/homemade box - the general consensus (but not unanimous) on these is that they make the vocal 'boxy - because they reduce all the high end, but not the mids that contribute to the boxy sound. So you end up EQing to reduce mids and boost highs/'air'. I've found (in a small room) if I have the mic set up so that I'm facing a 'V' of two bass traps (4" rockwool), I really don't have to worry much about reflections coming back to the mic from the back or side walls (yes, those are treated, too), because the initial sound is getting truncated before it starts bouncing around

 

[Deleted member 196982]

Ok so I should choose between the Rode NT1 and sE Electronics X1 S and ignore the AKG C214?

Well, I actually have a C214 and it's been a good mic. I only have 2 LDCs, and it still gets regular usage, though it's not the one I use on *my* voice, but that possibly has more to do with me than the mic! These things are largely commodities, so I do rely on reviews (ratings and total number), especially by folks that have other mics to compare against, so among the ones you listed at the time, the NT1 seemed like a good option to consider. (I used a friend's tube RØDE, NT2? It was nice and as friendly for my voice as the Miktek I prefer, but I know it's probably a good price bump up from what you are looking at.)

The reason to get a sub was to maybe get 3" monitors (due to limited desk space) and a subwoofer for the LF.

Unless you're mixing bass heavy content, from everything I've read, a sub, especially in a small, untreated space, is going to open up another can of worms. I'd consider some 5" speakers like the entry JBL or Yamaha models. Wait for a sale while you treat the room.

From your later post I see you are considering wall mount. No experience but I'd advise against it because of the rear-facing ports on most of these small speakers. I just don't think they're designed to be an inch away from the wall.

I was hoping to make a small box like the one in the video below to be kept on my desk when the mic is in use.

Not really useful. The mic's pickup pattern is going to capture mostly from in front of it, and it's the crap bouncing around the room that is going to get in, anyway. And the mics you're looking at don't have a desk stand.

and make some floor standing screens (see picture below) that can be behind the vocalist and can be folded and kept away when not in use

Panels on the wall and overhead are a lot more effective. IME in a small space, you just don't accomplish much by trying to do setups and teardowns everytime you want to record. It is far, far more conducive to recording if you can just open the DAW and "push the red button" to get started.

 

[ecc83]

Ah! Mike's point about the "boxy" nature of that filter (IS a box afterall!) reminds me that even the actual and genuine Reflection filter CAN introduce colouration and great care is needed in positioning the mic I understand,

No, don't think I am wrong about the Genny 6010s? They are cheap AV speakers with a sub. As I say, seems to be the best of their type but still pretty grotty for serious work.

Are the 8010As the co-incident jobs? If so yes, VERY pricey but amazing speakers by SoS accounts!

Dave.