anyone familier with this amplifier?

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jimistone

jimistone

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I found an old Gibson scout tube amp.
Is anyone familier with this amp. It would probably take tubes, transformers and the whole 90 yards to get it going. Is it a so-so budget amp that is not going to really sound good, or is it a desireable amp that is worth sinking some money into?

I can't find anything on it when doing a web search.
 
Does it work at all? Before throwing out any original tubes that came with the amp make sure to have them checked. You don't want to be throwing out a perfectly good vintage tube that would be impossible to get back.
 
Easto said:
Does it work at all? Before throwing out any original tubes that came with the amp make sure to have them checked. You don't want to be throwing out a perfectly good vintage tube that would be impossible to get back.

I don't know...I haven't plugged it in yet (the power cord is not there....I will have to install a new one). If it is a great sounding desirable amp...I will put some effort into checking everything out and not running the risk of frying anything....if it's a cheap assed budget amp im just going to solder on a pwer cord and plug it in.
 
Personally, anything from that era whether desirable or not I would hang on to. If it was mine I would open it up to make sure there aren't any fried components or bad caps, check the solder connections and plug the thing in. If the tubes are original you may want to replace them during the initial "fire up" for testing so that you don't fry any nice old tubes. Then if it proves worthy put the original tubes back in.
 
Gibson made quality amps in the 50s and 60s. The Scout made 5-10 watts, obviously not enough for gigging but great for practice and recording. Chances are the transformers are okay, but I'd guess it could use some new capacitors.
 
I agree with easto, but then I collect old amps.


The output transformer is the only part that really matters. "They don't make 'em like that anymore" really applies to a lot of old transformers. It will probably be impossible to replace with something like the original, and really makes the sound of most vintage amps. In the case of old Gibsons, that may not be a bad thing, some of them sounded horrible and were horrible amps :p. But at that point it will be a vintage shell with essentially all-new insides. Still cool, but not the original sound. :)

That, of course, is assuming the trafo is original in the first place. Many old amps have non-original ones, and people never notice.
 
About twentyfive years back I had a Gibson Ranger amp that was a monster and was noisey and I got rid of it for free.I knew nothing about amps or guitars back then and assumed because it was a tube amp that it must of been obsolete like a tube radio or TV.

Just one of a long list of stupid things I wish I could do over again. :o
 
thanks guys.
I plugged it in and it does nothing...I think the main transformer is gone.. I will do something with it....maybe a project amp with the gibson shell. That would be kind of cool
 
Assume nothing. Sight unseen, that amp is worth up to the $200 range.
(I have an old Gibson Skylark as well as many other vintage amps)
Start with the simple: check the fuse! Could be a tube. I'm quite sure the caps are all done for. Also could be broken solder joints.
Trannies are chunks of steel wrapped in wire. They just don't "go bad".

If you STILL wanna throw it out, I'll give you twenty bucks for it :D

Seriuosly, if you are at all any kinda hands on guy, give it a shot and FIX IT. They don't make those anymore. There are only X number of them left on the planet. I'm sure it would rock for Blues playing and certainly in the studio!!
 
Yeah, there's plenty of suspects besides the transformer in an amp that old, including the speaker. Have someone who knows look at it, if you aren't handy with an iron, or familiar with amps.

While a transformer may not "go bad", it can certainly be ruined, any number of ways, through abuse or neglect. The older the amp, the bigger the odds.
 
First off, unless you know what you are doing, do NOT try and work on it. I don't care how old it is, the caps can retain a VERY large charge for a long damn time. I've spoken to guys who work on TV tubes who are scared of tube amps. Don't fuck around with this, it's your life.

Second off, I am an amateur when it comes to amps. Take what I say about amps with the understanding that I only kind of know what I am talking about and you should verify anything I say with someone who has a clue.

That being said, if you know which ones are the filter caps, you can drain them fairly easily. Meter for DC voltage between the positive side of the filer caps and ground. If you have any voltage, drain it by putting a lead from ground to the plate of a tube, and leaving it there for 30-60 seconds. That should make it safe, but do check, OK? Great tone is not worth dying for, after all.

So, all that safety stuff out of the way, HERE is a PDF schematic of a GA-17rvt Scout amp. I have no idea if it is the same one or not, but there you go.

If you don't know about tube amps, then you should have already taken it to a good tech at this point, or you should go out and buy a book. I kind of think that Gerald Weber talks out of his ass sometimes (he has a tendency to claim unprovable opinions as fact, and I've seen him print a few verifiable falsehoods), but he does have a pretty good bit in his first book (A Desktop Reference to Hip Vintage Guitar Amps) about exactly this. He does not have that schematic, but he might in one of his other books (I don't have them, but you might be able to find out). But he does talk about how to go about restoring an amp. His DVD is also pretty good for learning about tube amps, but remember to take his opinions for what they are (I know amp guys who laugh at the idea that Sprague makes even a decent electrolytic cap, much less "the best caps in the world.")

The FIRST thing, after making sure it is safe, is to do a visual inspection to make sure you don't have any visibly damaged parts. The electrolytic caps are almost certainly shot, unless they have been replaced in the recent past. Look for burnt up resistors, coupling caps, and any scorching on the tube sockets (which is a sign of a shorted tube, which usually means there is some other problem which CAUSED the short). Look for rust on the transformer plates. If they are rusted, they will not work properly. With the power transformer, you won't get the necessary voltages, and with the OT you won't get all the power you should get. Smell the transformers, particularly the power transformer. If it smells burnt, it is burnt, and needs replacement. It's also not a bad idea, if you have ANY question about the components, to unsolder one end (make sure you know where they go!) and throw a meter on them to make sure they are what they say they are, and then reattach them. If that is (as I believe it should be) an old point to point amp, make sure the grounds are all good, which is to say that you have continuity between the ground terminal and the chassis. If the chassis is painted, there is a good chance that the grounds will not be good. If any of them are at ALL in question (which is to say if you have pretty much any resistance at all), then you need to either run a wire from all the grounds to a central ground point, or solder the separate ground points to the chassis (I hope you have a big fucking soldering gun, because a hobbyists 30 watter ain't gonna cut it for THAT task).

When you replace the power chord, use a three prong. I don't care if it came with a two prong, that just ain't safe, don't do it. Attach the ground (should be green in the USA) to the chassis. If the fuse is blown, there is probably a reason. Find it before you try to do anything more with the amp.

Really, don't try and do any of this until you are confidant you know what you are trying to do. These things can kill you, fast. The DC voltages in tube amps is exactly the most fatal possible level. It would actually be better if the voltage were higher, as it would just clamp down and stop your heart as opposed to sending it into fibrillation, so that higher voltages don't ruin your heart. All it takes is some CPR (usually), and your ready for a long recuperation in the hospital. With tube amp voltages, it's straight to the morgue for you (where they will cut you open for an autopsy, and if you've ever read about one of those, you do NOT want them to do that to you).

Oh, and I'm sure it goes without saying that this is not something to be done when under the influence of any mind altering substances or experiences (don't do if you've been smoking pot or your wife just left you for the pool boy).

And a few suppliers for you:

When I do amp work, I get most of my parts from one of my wholesale suppliers, which you probably can't do. But there are some good places out there.

http://www.hoffmanamps.com

http://www.tedweber.com/ (no relationship to Gerald Weber, as near as I can tell)

http://www.turretboards.com/

http://www.digikey.com/ (they carry some very nice caps, including the BC Components electrolytics in a axial package and the Panasonic E series caps, which my amp guy and semi-mentor for this shit recommended to me as the most reliable caps on the market).

http://www.mouser.com/ (great for resistors, wire, and a bunch of other shit.)

http://www.steinair.com/store.htm (actually an aircraft kit parts supplier, but they don't have a minimum order on Teflon insulated wire, and their prices for it are really good. They also are one of the few places I have found 20 awg Teflon insulated shielded wire with a Teflon jacket that is not like a light year in diameter. Cool place, and they even sent me a free tee-shirt when I ordered)


Oh yeah, and if you've never tried soldering with Teflon insulated wire, do. You'll never deliberately go back. The stuff is awesome. I don't care how long you hold your soldering iron on it, it doesn't melt. It makes the rather difficult solder joints in an amp a LOT easier. I mean, a LOT easier.

Three flippen' pages in word when I spell checked it. I've got to learn to shut my yap.

Take it all with a grain of salt. I don't really know that much about amps.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Oh yeah, and good luck finding the appropriate tubes. I don't see as that anyone is making the 6eu7 or the 6aq5, though at least a few are making the 6ca4 rectifier, or something that might work at least.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
gbondo9 said:
I found this (sold) on ebay: link

good luck man...



Oh, and that's the one in the schematic somewhere in all that longwindedness.


And V1 is a 12ax7, so you can use pin 1 of V1 to drain whatever might be left in the caps.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light said:
Oh, and that's the one in the schematic somewhere in all that longwindedness.


And V1 is a 12ax7, so you can use pin 1 of V1 to drain whatever might be left in the caps.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Thanks for the tips light.

Im not an "ace" on amplifier repair and restoration....but I know they hold a deadly charge and the caps have to be drained before they can safely be worked on.

The reason I think the transformer may be gone is because it's rusted to hell and back....Im going to check it out and tinker with it a bit.

Thanks everyone.
 
jimistone said:
The reason I think the transformer may be gone is because it's rusted to hell and back.

That's one of the big external signs. The lacquer rusts off, and the windings arc and short to ground.
 
jimistone said:
Thanks for the tips light.

Im not an "ace" on amplifier repair and restoration....but I know they hold a deadly charge and the caps have to be drained before they can safely be worked on.

The reason I think the transformer may be gone is because it's rusted to hell and back....Im going to check it out and tinker with it a bit.

Thanks everyone.



Yeah, if it's rusted, it is at the very least not giving you what you the voltages you need. It may even SEEM to be working, but it will not have the output it needs to have.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Actually transformers like capacitors can "go bad" you just might not notice it because the cange may be gradual depending on the type of core transformer has. The hysteresis characteristics of the xfmr may change due to any number of factors ... this in turn can change the coupling efficiency and the impedence gradually. A shorted winding in the secondary will cause the xfmr to overheat and fail. If the transformer is very old and heavely used the windings can become brittle and this may cause the winding to open under load similar to the way a heater in a tube will blow open with time.

Dick Dale made a career out of blowing output transformers on Fender Amps. They are not fragile but they can and do fail.
 
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