any violin tracking techniques?

[promesis]

have a session coming up with violin .. it has a pickup, but i want to add a mic track as well. my inclination would be to use a small diaphragm condenser .. or maybe a matched pair x/y .. i dunno .. any advice on techniques and mic placements?

tia

 

[carlosguardia]

Try a SD Condenser about 1 meter or so above and aimed at the violin. I would blend that with the DI signal. It all depends on the room you're going to be tracking in however. If the acoustics of the room aren't good, I would just use the DI.
Good luck.

 

[mixsit]

First question might be what perspective -A few instruments, wide/'real' or stereo capture for a sound stage'/room effect -or a mono placement within a denser mix?

 

[DavidK]

have a session coming up with violin .. it has a pickup,

A pickup?? Is it an electric? If so, the fiddle won't make any sound, the sound will come out an amp.

If it's an acoustic with a pickup, it's assumedly not a very good instrument as most violinists wouldnt be caught dead using one. That said, the sound of a pickup might be appropriate for certain genres. It won't hurt to experiment, but I would just ask the fiddle player. If he/she has a pickup, I can only assume they want that sound and not a mic'ed sound.

 

[gecko zzed]

If it's an acoustic with a pickup, it's assumedly not a very good instrument as most violinists wouldnt be caught dead using one. That said, the sound of a pickup might be appropriate for certain genres. It won't hurt to experiment, but I would just ask the fiddle player. If he/she has a pickup, I can only assume they want that sound and not a mic'ed sound.

Your assumptions are a little too general for my liking. I expect that you are correct in that many violinists would not compromise the quality of their instruments by fitting pick ups, and nor would they choose a pick-up sound over their instruments' natural sound.

Nevertheless, there are likewise many violinists and fiddle players who use high quality pickups on high quality instruments, and many performance circumstances where such a configuration is highly desirable. There are also high quality pickups (e.g. bridge transducers) that do not compromise the natural instrument sound.

But performing live is not the same as recording, and though the live situation may warrant the use of a pick-up, one should not assume that the performer would want the pick-up sound used in a recording.

The advice given in other responses is sound; it is worth capturing both. The DIed violin sound might add something to the miked sound.

My 'go to' technique for violin is as Carlosguardia describes: an SDC about a metre above, and aimed towards, the violin. I tend not to use DIs on violins, preferring the natural sound. The only time I would use a DI is if the violinist specifically seeks a modified sound through the use of various effects.

 

[promesis]

First question might be what perspective -A few instruments, wide/'real' or stereo capture for a sound stage'/room effect -or a mono placement within a denser mix?

thanks for the replies and sorry about the lack of specificity..

most likely mono placement within the denser mix: americana style acoustic gits, banjo, pedal steel, washboard, drums, bass .. crap like that. i like tracking several signals to capture different characteristics of the instrument's timbre and pick one or a combination of some to identify the appropriate choice for sitting in the mix.. one may sound best without having to squeeze the eq after hearing it in context. for example: one may sound glorious out of context with little eq massaging - another may sound rather poopy.. but within the full mix context the 'poopy' track may have those characteristics that will help it persist in the mix with little coaxing.

A pickup?? Is it an electric? If so, the fiddle won't make any sound, the sound will come out an amp.

If it's an acoustic with a pickup, it's assumedly not a very good instrument as most violinists wouldnt be caught dead using one. That said, the sound of a pickup might be appropriate for certain genres. It won't hurt to experiment, but I would just ask the fiddle player. If he/she has a pickup, I can only assume they want that sound and not a mic'ed sound.

yep.. nomenclature.. and i guess if it were electric no sound would come out of the amp if it were not bowed as well.. LOL .
but yeah .. i totally hear and agree with you on that 'real' violinist thang! so you kinda get where i am coming from on this and indeed in addition it's probably also quite "assumedly" that the player isn't that good.
all fun aside, you are absolutely right- i think experimenting and consulting with the player while initially employing the meter above / small condenser / di / amp or mic pre is a winning combination. thanks again - all good things to keep in mind.

 

[Talldog]

I've done a bunch of Americana with violin. I used a c414eb ldc and a km184 sdc in a 14x22 living room with wood floors and an 8.5 foot ceiling (has a couch and chair it it). It came out great but the artist is an amazing player (Megan Palmer from Columbus, OH). I avoid using the pu in any accoustic instrument. I'd post an example but I'm not sure how......

 

[promesis]

I've done a bunch of Americana with violin. I used a c414eb ldc and a km184 sdc in a 14x22 living room with wood floors and an 8.5 foot ceiling (has a couch and chair it it). It came out great but the artist is an amazing player (Megan Palmer from Columbus, OH). I avoid using the pu in any accoustic instrument. I'd post an example but I'm not sure how......

thanks - i was thinking of a LDC + SDC combination as well. e.g. "experimentation"
could you describe the mic positioning you ultimately ended up with?

 

[mattr]

My $0.02... For rock/metal songs with some string sections added to it (Yellowcard type thing?) then recording from the pickups actually gives the right kind of sound once its buried in the mix with a bit of reverb.

But for anything else, I'd mic as per the suggestions above.

 

[Talldog]

As far as mic position goes, I think I had the 414 about 12-18 inches away aimed at where the bow hits the strings and the 184 Aimed on an angle from the head of the violin at about the middle of the strings About 18 inches away. Again, Megan is a monster player and knows how to play in the studio.

 

[rayc]

Do both - one may be a disaster & the other not.
The room will be important with any mic.
Hope you're being paid by the hr.

 

[omtayslick]

If you have any ribbon mics laying around you could try one of those as well. I heard a violin track done by a friend that was recorded with a Royer ribbon and it was pretty cool.