Ampex MM-1000 Story...
- Thread starter sweetbeats
- Start date
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
I often have equated "contemporary" or "modern" with precision and fine detail, but my experiences with Ampex equipment have changed that. I was simply short-sighted before. This is underscored when you realize that that viscous flywheel was in use in Ampex tape machines (audio, video and data) in the early 60's, and maybe even before that.
BTW, for all you 440-8 fans, that's the same flywheel used on the 440-8 reel idler as well. Think of the 440-8 as a compact "lite" version of a 1" MM-1000.
BTW, for all you 440-8 fans, that's the same flywheel used on the 440-8 reel idler as well. Think of the 440-8 as a compact "lite" version of a 1" MM-1000.
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
One value in having spares...
An Ampex List member has a motion sense switch I need and I have a transport speed switch he needs...we're swappin' straight across...at this point its a race to see who's is going reach its destination first but I think I'm gonna win.
I believe it is my dodgey-busted-onitslastlegs switch that is the cause of my transport's intermittent willingness to enter PLAY mode. Its any easy swap so I'll know soon.
Also it was suggested to me that my issue with varying tension may actually be tape related. I hadn't thought of this before because the tape seems to run smooth and there is no shedding, but it certainly makes to try different tape. Um, duh. I've only used a reel of 996 on it. Ethan has some 996 that wet sticky in sections. My tape runs clean but maybe it is early in the breakdown process and is just "grabby" in spots. Certainly worth trying some of the 499 I have, ad the transport doesn't seem to be eating tapes so I'll have to give that a shot and see.
Also received an order from Mouser the other day with the rest of the caps needed to recap the whole machine. Again, no rush on this since things are working quite well, but I'm glad to have them on hand and as time goes I'll go through things starting with the power supplies...which, BTW, means I'll get to use the cap I got that is the size of a peanut butter jar. Now that's a cap!
An Ampex List member has a motion sense switch I need and I have a transport speed switch he needs...we're swappin' straight across...at this point its a race to see who's is going reach its destination first but I think I'm gonna win.
I believe it is my dodgey-busted-onitslastlegs switch that is the cause of my transport's intermittent willingness to enter PLAY mode. Its any easy swap so I'll know soon.Also it was suggested to me that my issue with varying tension may actually be tape related. I hadn't thought of this before because the tape seems to run smooth and there is no shedding, but it certainly makes to try different tape. Um, duh. I've only used a reel of 996 on it. Ethan has some 996 that wet sticky in sections. My tape runs clean but maybe it is early in the breakdown process and is just "grabby" in spots. Certainly worth trying some of the 499 I have, ad the transport doesn't seem to be eating tapes so I'll have to give that a shot and see.
Also received an order from Mouser the other day with the rest of the caps needed to recap the whole machine. Again, no rush on this since things are working quite well, but I'm glad to have them on hand and as time goes I'll go through things starting with the power supplies...which, BTW, means I'll get to use the cap I got that is the size of a peanut butter jar. Now that's a cap!
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Now that's a cap...
I remember marveling at the biggest cap in my Tascam 58 I used to have...it was about 1" in diameter and maybe 1.5" tall.
I know there are bigger caps in the world than this one, but here is the biggest on the MM-1000:
I remember marveling at the biggest cap in my Tascam 58 I used to have...it was about 1" in diameter and maybe 1.5" tall.
I know there are bigger caps in the world than this one, but here is the biggest on the MM-1000:
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
OMG!! Never seen anything like this!! Are you sure it's not something that came out of a DeLorean?
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
cjacek
Analogue Enthusiast
That one looked like this:
Judging by what you've already found in the MM-1000, all the jaw dropping discoveries, it wouldn't surprise me if you'd find one.
dodgeaspen
New member
That one looked like this:
That box in the middle looks like the early version of the flux capacitor. Cool!
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Finished refurbishing the 8 XLR-F jacks for the I/O panel...took each one apart and cleaned each piece with a variety of methods...they are ready to go back into the panel. Still have the XLR-M jacks to do but those are easier...less parts per unit. These jacks are incredible; how heavy-duty they are. I know that's not specific to Ampex at all. These specific jacks were, I believe, originally designed by Cannon and also made by Amphenol and JAE. These particular ones are made by JAE...I sourced them from spares as the original jacks were in fairly bad condition. They're lookin' good now! Best part is that they have the release tabs now so you can actually unplug the XLR cables without having to reach inside the machine to push the tab from the backside of the jack!
I also took the motion sensor assembly back out to replace the one busted up switch. I took the opportunity to partially disassemble the assembly and give it a proper cleaning which I didn't do the first time knowing I'd be doing just this once I found a replacement switch. Traded a different type of spare switch I had for the NOS motion sensor switch you now see in the assembly with a fellow MM-1000 owner. Good trade! A few views for your enjoyment with the old switch in the foreground. After all the cleaning and reassembly I think this is ging to work very good now.
NOW...I've been grappling with the viscous-damped reel idler flywheel exposed and pictured a number of posts ago. It seemingly hasn't been behaving properly (like the inner flywheel isn't properly coupling with the outer shell at speed) and I've suspected that maybe there wasn't enough oil in it. I read an old post of Jay McKnight's over at the Ampex List that described a test method to determine if it is working. The method is simply to open the housing up and spin the thing and see if the two couple up. Duh. So I did just that using a 5/16" bolt with the head cut off, one end affixed to the flywheel with its set screws and the other end chucked up in my hand drill. See the YouTube video below which is probably the only video on the internet showing the internal workings of one of these things in action. Mine seems to be working okay. Once it starts spinning I can apply pressure with my finger to the inner wheel and that pressure will slow the drill down which, remember, is attached to the outer wheel and the inner and outer are coupled by the fluid. This means that there is enough coupling between the two to drag the drill motor down when applying resistance to the inner wheel. Cool. This is good as I STILL have NO idea what grade of silicon oil to use for this thing or where to get it. That's gonna bug me. I haven't put it all back together yet because I want the kids to see it first...great example of a fluid-coupled power transmission device similar in concept to what you'll find in any automotive automatic transmission...answers the question "How does it go?"
YouTube
Having the flywheel out of the machine as well as the repairs needed on the motion sensor assembly is what has prevented my from racking up any gear in the lower console (as that would make access more challenging especially for the flywheel) so I'm pleased that these things are coming to a resolution and I can really have the MM-1000 put together.
I also took the motion sensor assembly back out to replace the one busted up switch. I took the opportunity to partially disassemble the assembly and give it a proper cleaning which I didn't do the first time knowing I'd be doing just this once I found a replacement switch. Traded a different type of spare switch I had for the NOS motion sensor switch you now see in the assembly with a fellow MM-1000 owner. Good trade! A few views for your enjoyment with the old switch in the foreground. After all the cleaning and reassembly I think this is ging to work very good now.
NOW...I've been grappling with the viscous-damped reel idler flywheel exposed and pictured a number of posts ago. It seemingly hasn't been behaving properly (like the inner flywheel isn't properly coupling with the outer shell at speed) and I've suspected that maybe there wasn't enough oil in it. I read an old post of Jay McKnight's over at the Ampex List that described a test method to determine if it is working. The method is simply to open the housing up and spin the thing and see if the two couple up. Duh. So I did just that using a 5/16" bolt with the head cut off, one end affixed to the flywheel with its set screws and the other end chucked up in my hand drill. See the YouTube video below which is probably the only video on the internet showing the internal workings of one of these things in action. Mine seems to be working okay. Once it starts spinning I can apply pressure with my finger to the inner wheel and that pressure will slow the drill down which, remember, is attached to the outer wheel and the inner and outer are coupled by the fluid. This means that there is enough coupling between the two to drag the drill motor down when applying resistance to the inner wheel. Cool. This is good as I STILL have NO idea what grade of silicon oil to use for this thing or where to get it. That's gonna bug me. I haven't put it all back together yet because I want the kids to see it first...great example of a fluid-coupled power transmission device similar in concept to what you'll find in any automotive automatic transmission...answers the question "How does it go?"
YouTube
Having the flywheel out of the machine as well as the repairs needed on the motion sensor assembly is what has prevented my from racking up any gear in the lower console (as that would make access more challenging especially for the flywheel) so I'm pleased that these things are coming to a resolution and I can really have the MM-1000 put together.
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The Ghost of FM
Banned
I love shiny things.
You could alway just wear a pair of sun glasses when you read this thread!
Cheers!
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Okay...THAT didn't work...
Well, I bolted up the motion sensor and it STILL doesn't actuate like it should in PLAY. Hm. There's just not enough drag to get that little paddle to close the new switch.
It turns out the assembly involves yet another viscous coupling: the shaft from the disk that mates with the reel motor goes down inside the housing with the paddle that engages one switch or the other, okay? Well I thought it was just a friction fit between two surfaces but here is a fluid in there. Good news is that should last forever and be consistent in terms of avoiding wear on the shaft and housing surfaces...it makes sense to do it this way because the frictional coefficient needs to be consistent over time in order to maintain consistent performance, and this would not be the case between two hard surfaces as they wear.
ANYway...
I figured "hey, maybe its low and I'll just add some more thick oil." Wrong. I used the closest thing I had to what is in the reel idler flywheel because I assumed it was the same type of close-tolerance arrangement. Nope. I used my turbine oil. Figured I couldn't go wrong because its pretty heavy and very refined. It took it from not working right to not working at all. Slippery. I figured "Hey! I'll just pour everything out and put some HEAVIER oil in there. When I poured it out the turbine oil was mixed with a semi-gelatinous milky fluid. Dang. They had to put something WIERD in there. So I put some 80/90 gear oil in there...heavy oil. Nope. Still didn't work. I filled it up all the way thinking THAT would do the trick. Nope. But it did leak out the top as I as filling and make a mess. ARG!
So I took it all apart again to clean it all up, and it is devoid of any oil mess so that's good...got it on its side and I'm gonna leave it that way for a couple days maybe to drain as much as possible, but in the meantime I've gotta try and figure out what was in there...it was, like, the consistency of freezer jam before you freeze it...when its still runny (sans berry chunks okay?)...thick and just a little jelly-like...man I'm up a creek if I can't figure this out...
Oh and to add insult to injury its STILL doing that thing where it won't go into PLAY sometimes, even with the new switch installed on the motion sensor. I'm just going to go ahead and recap the Control Relay Box...there are only 5 caps in there and three of them have to do with time delay and holding voltage, and those three caps happen to be "Beaver" branded paper casing lytics which are NOTORIUS for going bad...I've already got some nice Vishay replacements so I'll put those in and see where we're at. Even if that doesn't fix it I know it needs to be done anyway so there you have it.
Well, I bolted up the motion sensor and it STILL doesn't actuate like it should in PLAY. Hm. There's just not enough drag to get that little paddle to close the new switch.
It turns out the assembly involves yet another viscous coupling: the shaft from the disk that mates with the reel motor goes down inside the housing with the paddle that engages one switch or the other, okay? Well I thought it was just a friction fit between two surfaces but here is a fluid in there. Good news is that should last forever and be consistent in terms of avoiding wear on the shaft and housing surfaces...it makes sense to do it this way because the frictional coefficient needs to be consistent over time in order to maintain consistent performance, and this would not be the case between two hard surfaces as they wear.
ANYway...
I figured "hey, maybe its low and I'll just add some more thick oil." Wrong. I used the closest thing I had to what is in the reel idler flywheel because I assumed it was the same type of close-tolerance arrangement. Nope. I used my turbine oil. Figured I couldn't go wrong because its pretty heavy and very refined. It took it from not working right to not working at all. Slippery. I figured "Hey! I'll just pour everything out and put some HEAVIER oil in there. When I poured it out the turbine oil was mixed with a semi-gelatinous milky fluid. Dang. They had to put something WIERD in there. So I put some 80/90 gear oil in there...heavy oil. Nope. Still didn't work. I filled it up all the way thinking THAT would do the trick. Nope. But it did leak out the top as I as filling and make a mess. ARG!
So I took it all apart again to clean it all up, and it is devoid of any oil mess so that's good...got it on its side and I'm gonna leave it that way for a couple days maybe to drain as much as possible, but in the meantime I've gotta try and figure out what was in there...it was, like, the consistency of freezer jam before you freeze it...when its still runny (sans berry chunks okay?)...thick and just a little jelly-like...man I'm up a creek if I can't figure this out...Oh and to add insult to injury its STILL doing that thing where it won't go into PLAY sometimes, even with the new switch installed on the motion sensor. I'm just going to go ahead and recap the Control Relay Box...there are only 5 caps in there and three of them have to do with time delay and holding voltage, and those three caps happen to be "Beaver" branded paper casing lytics which are NOTORIUS for going bad...I've already got some nice Vishay replacements so I'll put those in and see where we're at. Even if that doesn't fix it I know it needs to be done anyway so there you have it.
The Ghost of FM
Banned
What about transmission fluid? Have you tried that?
Good luck!
Cheers!
Good luck!
Cheers!
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
You mean gear oil, or automatic transmission fluid? ATF is pretty thin and I don't know all of what's inside and whether or not it'll be happy with ATF...the 80/90 oil I used is a manual transmission gear oil.
The stuff that was in there was something else...
The stuff that was in there was something else...
The Ghost of FM
Banned
I suppose I meant ATF but not really sure if the consistency of that was what you were after?
Any chance one of the AMPEX List gurus would know?
Good luck!
Cheers!
Any chance one of the AMPEX List gurus would know?
Good luck!
Cheers!
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Yeah, thinner. It has to flow. If you look at the pics of the motion sensor assembly from a few posts ago you can see a button head socket cap screw right in the middle of the paddle housing...you see that? That's the fill hole, and I think the idea is that, since that housing is vertical when mounted you fill it up to that hole level, so it has to flow down into the housing and settle, but te stuff that came out, while it flowed, was also kind of klumpy. Dang...
Yeah, I'll try the Ampex List but I think I get a bit more into the mechanical tear-down where most of the group is more electronics savvy (VERY savvy).
I've had contact with a couple guys that are involved in Ampex quad VTR restorations so I might try that too...
Yeah, I'll try the Ampex List but I think I get a bit more into the mechanical tear-down where most of the group is more electronics savvy (VERY savvy
).I've had contact with a couple guys that are involved in Ampex quad VTR restorations so I might try that too...
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
Cool! My new word for the day...
centistoke
It is a measure of viscosity.
Looks like the reel idler flywheel AND the motion sensor actuator housing use Dow Corning 200 silicone fluid. The former at 50000 centistokes and the latter at 10000 centistokes. Still need to confirm the amounts of each but it looks like I may be able to purchase these fluids in small quantities, though as noted earlier I'm thinking I'm okay on the reel idler flywheel.
Thanks and credit to Jay McKnight and Don Norwood for their help in this. We all know who Jay is, and for those that donzt know don is a guru in the quad VTR world among others.
I love analog.
[EDIT] I originally wrote "centistroke"...It is "centistoke"...no 'r'. Thanks Ofajen for the clarification!
centistoke
It is a measure of viscosity.
Looks like the reel idler flywheel AND the motion sensor actuator housing use Dow Corning 200 silicone fluid. The former at 50000 centistokes and the latter at 10000 centistokes. Still need to confirm the amounts of each but it looks like I may be able to purchase these fluids in small quantities, though as noted earlier I'm thinking I'm okay on the reel idler flywheel.
Thanks and credit to Jay McKnight and Don Norwood for their help in this. We all know who Jay is, and for those that donzt know don is a guru in the quad VTR world among others.
I love analog.
[EDIT] I originally wrote "centistroke"...It is "centistoke"...no 'r'. Thanks Ofajen for the clarification!
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sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
I neglected to mention that I reinstalled the reel idler flywheel since it seems to be functioning appropriately so...that's good.
At the same time I can't get the capstan motor out of my head...that thing isn't easy to get out just because of the weight of it, but it won't be any easier later when the console is loaded. The fact that I've found all the other bearings to be tired causes me to be suspect of the capstan motor bearings as well as the capstan shaft itself and that's such a critical performance component; the proper operation of the capstan. Thinking of sending the pinch roller to Terry for a rebuild and pulling the capstan at the same time and replacing the bearings.
At the same time I can't get the capstan motor out of my head...that thing isn't easy to get out just because of the weight of it, but it won't be any easier later when the console is loaded. The fact that I've found all the other bearings to be tired causes me to be suspect of the capstan motor bearings as well as the capstan shaft itself and that's such a critical performance component; the proper operation of the capstan. Thinking of sending the pinch roller to Terry for a rebuild and pulling the capstan at the same time and replacing the bearings.