ACOUSTICS GURUS: What do you think of my new studio plan?

[RecordingMaster]

Hey all!

I have attached my studio plan to this thread, but here's a little preface...

Soon I will be moving from my current house (where my live room is in the basement and control room upstairs) into a larger one-room studio I am "building" in my new house's basement. While the ceiling is only 7', I am hoping I can deal with things and still get a good usable room for mixing and tracking. I have been making loads of bass traps and broadband absorbers and have a plan in mind. I also picked up a few Auralex Q fusors to help offset all the absorption I will need - mainly around the drums to keep em crispy. I tried to sort of do a modified Live End Dead End concept where the mix spot has more absorption but the drum area on the far end is a little more lively but still with adequate absorption due to potential problems with lower ceilings.

I will be building a wall to the left side of the studio to close it off and putting a steel "door in a frame" to access the studio from the rest of the basement. So other than the left wall, everything else is surrounded by outside walls - cinder block covered with pink insulation, vapor barrier and sheet rock.

Optimally, I would insulate the entire ceiling and just cover it in fabric, but that would allow too much sound to pass intpo the upstairs. So I will be filling the ceiling joists in roxul safe n sound and then covering that with sheet rock and treating the ceiling from the inside. I need to try to keep the ceiling as high as possible so here is what I've come up with. I already have all the acoustics materials in the plan, ready to hang.

How's this???

 

[guitaristic]

I'm no guru at all, but is it possible that it is TOO dead? Maybe it's just the picture making it seem like there's more than there is.

 

[RecordingMaster]

I'm no guru at all, but is it possible that it is TOO dead? Maybe it's just the picture making it seem like there's more than there is.

Well the way I was looking at it was like this...
1) All the treatments around the mix spot are an absolute MUST. First reflections, bass traps, ceiling clouds, carpet underneath for floor reflections at mix position
2) That's why I am doing a reflective floor with movable area rugs. Well the drum rug and mix rug will probably always stay, but to liven it up, I could remove the middle rug. It will be one of those persian rugs for aesthetic mostly and for a more "homey" feel when band mates are rehearsing or hanging out or doing live scratch tracks.
3) That's why I did a semi-diffusive ceiling in the middle part so it's not comlpetely deadened with 2" foam, which i am aware only absorbs highs. Having no treatment on the middle part of ceiling wouldn't work because then there would likely be comb filtering or flutters when that rug is removed.
4) Ceiling clouds above the drums are a must for lower-than-avg ceiling (the overheads will benefit)
5) all bass traps around drums spot are reflective , hence faced traps
6) The diffusion around the drum and rehearsal spots should hopefully restore some highs a little
7) That's why I am using all OC703 for broadband absorption (not just killing highs) and spacing it 2" off the wall for more low end absorption, giving the room a flatter response
8) I'd ditch the 4 panels in the middle "rehearsal" area, but then I'd worry about flutter echoes, comb filtering and having it too lively right near the mix spot. Hence the diffusers to help liven that spot up a little?
9) I figured those panels around the drums (behind and to the sides) are an absolute must as well, since those walls will be approx all 2.5' away from drums. Wanted a bit of absorption (not complete wall coverage) on sides and rear so no nasty phasey, combey reflections bounce back into drum mics.
10) Need a carpet so the drums don't slide. All these guys say "put the drums on a hard wood floor" but have they ever actually friggen played the damn things? You can't. Bass drums and hi-hats slide away. So you need a carpet at least big enough to cover the area that your pedals, kick, hats and stool take up. But then at that point the only drums that wouldn't have carpet under them would be the floor toms, which would make it sound quite uneven (I've tried it). If anything you'd want more lively high toms and snare, and more controlled floor toms. anyways...

Am I making sense guys?

 

[RecordingMaster]

So no one else wants to chime in? I spent so long drawing up the sketch specifically for you HR.com guys/gals! I would hope some more people could shed some light? If you're lazy, don't read the preface! haha

 

[DM60]

Have you tried it yet? I agree with guitaristic, the room could be too dead, but you won't really know that until you try it out. Looks pretty extensive.

Let's see what the gurus say about it.

 

[Ethan Winer]

How's this???

Not bad, though you'd do better with thicker absorption on the front and rear walls, and real diffusers where you show those plastic thingies. I wouldn't worry about the room being too dead. It's too narrow to get a "good" sounding ambience.

--Ethan

 

[RecordingMaster]

Not bad, though you'd do better with thicker absorption on the front and rear walls, and real diffusers where you show those plastic thingies. I wouldn't worry about the room being too dead. It's too narrow to get a "good" sounding ambience.

--Ethan

Thanks for the reply and help Ethan! "Thingies" got me going! Yes, I agree, they aren't "real" diffusors by any stretch. However, I'd hope they'd provide at least a slight bit more diffusion than a bare wall until I can afford real diffusion (hopefully)? The other reason I went that way for now is space. These only protrude 3" off wall where as a true diffuser to diffuse anything below, say 800hz, would have to be much deeper. A 10' wide room can get crowded real fast. So I'd hope these can at least diffuse as low as, say 1k or something, just to keep cymbals and things crispy up there in the high end. They are "based on a quadratic mathematical equation", but I take that with a grain of salt. They are very firm EPS Styrofoam which i need to paint to make more reflective.

As for being too dead...let's say I get the room all set up and realize things in fact ARE too dead, like to the point where it's uncomfortable to talk and so dry it leaves you feeling uninspired while playing, say, the drums. Then perhaps at that point it would be a good idea to remove the 4 absorption panels in the middle area? I'd think the drums panels MUST stay, for unwanted reflections as well as mix spot. My other idea if too dead is to cut some sheets of 2'x4' plywood and use a hole saw to cut out a pattern of holes in the wood, then paint and mount it to those existing 4 middle panels (maybe even the drums ones).

I can humbly say that this is all extremely uneducated, naive, ignorant and based solely on assumption, so i guess I will try the original thought first and see what it's like and how much less absorption the room/recordings/mixing can deal with.

 

[DM60]

Thanks for the reply and help Ethan! "Thingies" got me going! Yes, I agree, they aren't "real" diffusors by any stretch. However, I'd hope they'd provide at least a slight bit more diffusion than a bare wall until I can afford real diffusion (hopefully)? The other reason I went that way for now is space. These only protrude 3" off wall where as a true diffuser to diffuse anything below, say 800hz, would have to be much deeper. A 10' wide room can get crowded real fast. So I'd hope these can at least diffuse as low as, say 1k or something, just to keep cymbals and things crispy up there in the high end. They are "based on a quadratic mathematical equation", but I take that with a grain of salt. They are very firm EPS Styrofoam which i need to paint to make more reflective.

As for being too dead...let's say I get the room all set up and realize things in fact ARE too dead, like to the point where it's uncomfortable to talk and so dry it leaves you feeling uninspired while playing, say, the drums. Then perhaps at that point it would be a good idea to remove the 4 absorption panels in the middle area? I'd think the drums panels MUST stay, for unwanted reflections as well as mix spot. My other idea if too dead is to cut some sheets of 2'x4' plywood and use a hole saw to cut out a pattern of holes in the wood, then paint and mount it to those existing 4 middle panels (maybe even the drums ones).

I can humbly say that this is all extremely uneducated, naive, ignorant and based solely on assumption, so i guess I will try the original thought first and see what it's like and how much less absorption the room/recordings/mixing can deal with.

I think perfection is impossible, so I think you are right, how good can you get it and still be able to work with it in the final mix.

Looks good, can you post a pic when you are done?

 

[RecordingMaster]

Looks good, can you post a pic when you are done?

You bet your ars I will! I put a lot of hrs into building all those panels and a lot of hours will go into building that room (eg attempting to sound proof left wall and ceiling, drywalling, flooring, lighting, ventilation, etc). I will for sure want to show it off at the end of it all. lol

 

[DM60]

You bet your ars I will! I put a lot of hrs into building all those panels and a lot of hours will go into building that room (eg attempting to sound proof left wall and ceiling, drywalling, flooring, lighting, ventilation, etc). I will for sure want to show it off at the end of it all. lol

Nothing like seeing an idea come to life. Thanks, I know look forward to seeing it.

 

[Ethan Winer]

let's say I get the room all set up and realize things in fact ARE too dead, like to the point where it's uncomfortable to talk

That's not likely.

and so dry it leaves you feeling uninspired while playing, say, the drums.

That's possible, but adding "small room" ambience is not a solution. Just add reverb to the drummer's headphones while recording. Then again, I don't mind drums in a dead room.

--Ethan

 

[witzendoz]

Why not hang some of the panels on a picture rail system so they can be removed or added depending on the acoustic you require ate the time, or is you are rally inventive, make reversible panels with a hard surface on one side and a soft on the other.

Alan.

 

[RecordingMaster]

Why not hang some of the panels on a picture rail system so they can be removed or added depending on the acoustic you require ate the time, or is you are rally inventive, make reversible panels with a hard surface on one side and a soft on the other.

Alan.

That's a good idea, but what would be even easier is to just take the panel(s) right off the wall if I don't want it there at any given time. But that's sort of the catch 22. The whole reason why there is that number of panels (and placement) in the first place is to avoid potential acoustics issues due to the dimensions of the room, ie: 7' ceiling, only 10' wide, etc.

As always, I am probably over-thinking it, but I guess I was just initially looking to see what y'all thought of the layout - I wanted to make sure what i had planned was a logical way to approach things and judging by the general consensus, it looks like I'm probably approaching everything in a practical way, bearing in mind that of course things can always be better. Like having better diffusion, which is not to say I can't upgrade that in the future.

Thanks!

 

[Ethan Winer]

As always, I am probably over-thinking it

Probably!

The goal for a room like yours is to be neutral. Once it's treated for that, there's no need to add or remove treatment other than maybe putting a throw rug under the drums but not under an acoustic guitar.

--Ethan

 

[RecordingMaster]

Probably!

The goal for a room like yours is to be neutral. Once it's treated for that, there's no need to add or remove treatment other than maybe putting a throw rug under the drums but not under an acoustic guitar.

--Ethan

Excellent advice. That takes the guesswork out of it!

 

[hannanahmad]

It's the perfect size of room and arrangement.

 

[RecordingMaster]

Alright gurus, so I am now smack dab in the middle of this construction (detailed thread with pics can be found here).

Anyways, I am planning on sticking to the same plan i have drawn out here acoustically, except I am now contemplating doing superchunk bass traps instead of straddling. It will save space (rather than the edges of straddled bass traps sticking out off the wall on either side) and will apparently do a slightly better job and look sleeker. I think i have enough OC703 to do superchunks in 2 or the 4 vertical corners...

So my question...
I was going to buy more OC703 to do the back corners, but for budgetary reasons I started researching any cheaper materials. To be my surprise (and delight) the cheaper pink fluffy stuff (or anything soft, ie: not rigid) works BETTER for superchunks. So that being said...I was going to do the OC703 superchunks at my mix position and then just the cheaper fluffy superchunks, 30' behind me on the opposing wall, where the drums will be located.

Since the fluffy is BETTER for superchunks...
1) should I have the fluffy superchunks at mix position and the OC703 at the drum end?
2) should I not use OC703 at all and just do ALL pink fluffy superchunks?
3) Will the OC703 be any good at all for that or am I way better off just doing all fluffy?
4) No matter what I do, I was going to cover the fronts of the chunks near the drum end, with butcher paper shiny side out (and then cover with fabric for looks), as to not absorb as many highs (and leave that job to the broadband absorbers). Is that still ok to do for superchunks or only recommended for the straddled type of rigid bass traps?

Please help shed some light as I don't believe this has specifically been answered online anywhere that i can find. Thanks and cheers!

 

[mjbphotos]

I never heard of doing the paper on bass traps before. Bouncing the highs off, isn't that self-defeating?

 

[RecordingMaster]

I never heard of doing the paper on bass traps before. Bouncing the highs off, isn't that self-defeating?

Ethan Winer suggested this in another thread on here before (and elswhwere online). HEY ETHAN, where you at?!

So he says, having a reflective surface (such as the FRK foil covering that comes on "faced" OC703, butcher paper, plastic wrap, or thin cardboard) on the front of a corner-straddling basstrap made of condensed fiberglass (like OC703), improves low end absorption while reflecting mids and highs back into the room. I have broadband absorbers for the mids and highs (unfaced oc703 covered in burlap) so no need to go overkill absorbing MORE mid and high with a tool I purposefully have in place in order to absorb only low end. That's at the more "live" end of my room where the drums are anyway. I am putting unfaced near mix spot.

But that's thing...I wonder if facing a superchunk has the same result as the faced corner-straddling trap.

The bigger question is should I not do OC for superchunks at all? Or if I keep two corner with it, should it be at the mix spot or on the drum end? If pink fluffy is better at low end absorption in superchunk then maybe I should put that at mix spot? But then i might as well do it everywhere. gah too much thinking

 

[XploZiveToyz]

I think you're off to a good start. In fact, I think you may be going a bit overboard, but if you have the money, go for it. As I'm sure you well know, you're main goal is to learn your equipment and room's idiosyncrasies so that you can make allowances for them and then do your mixes accordingly. That's just my opinion, but know from personal knowledge that one can compensate for bad acoustics if one knows what it is they are compensating for. Looks as if you're going to have a pretty nice setup though. Good luck, and happy recording/mixing!