About preamps...

  • Thread starter Thread starter PRiZ
  • Start date Start date
Yeah, I fixed the end...

I've flooded this site with posts over the last days, so most peeps on here that have been helping me, know what I'm trying to do. (hiphop)

"What do you wish to accomplish with the recordings when they're done? Demos to send to record companies? Recordings to give out to family and friends? To sell at gigs? "

all of the above...except probably not record companies.
(mayby if it's an independant label, but otherwise independant is the way I wanna go) but good sound is gonna be the object of desire either or anyway...

I think I'm past the stage, that your trying to help me with...

What's just recently on my mind is if it's worth getting a preamp that does most if not all of the compression, de-essers etc. This way I would be recording a more solid prototype...

or if I just got a decent preamp for less without all the features and did more of the compression etc in software to make up for the extra abilities in a preamp like the Presonus VXP... yes, clearly something for me to decide, but what works out better overall for ease and sound quality, despite price?
Some of these software programs for vocal compression etc, look really good.

Overall I'd assume the first choice... mayby both, but it's open for debate.
 
originally posted by priz
Studios scare me, there's to much pressure involved.
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now take a look at this other quote from priz
I have spent numerous days in a proffesional studio, working on my own music with the help of an almost proffesional producer.
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that doesnt add up in my book. if studios scare you why are you even trying to do this? you think you wont have pressure once you get your setup? YOU WILL HAVE MORE PRESSURE. because you wont have HELP. you will be alone. yuo will have to rely on your ear and not the egineers. you will have to do it all by yourself. engineer,produce and write songs. however your two quotes really seem like contradictions. you spent days in a spot that scares you and you had pressure even though you had help........something is wrong......are you sure the folks on this site are far off?

Now you all are telling me I'm not ready yet, even though I quit my job to do this, I'm risking alot...
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gear breaks. what are you gonna do when you buy something and it breaks after 3 or 4 months? what are you gonna do when your cables have shorts because you didnt take care of em right? what are you gonna do when you experience problems that require money to solve?you really did risk a lot.

priz i have tried to steer you into a really basic setup that you can grow and learn from. you need the basics now. thats why i told you to get the roland studio pack a cool mic external pre and maybe and external comp. a basic setup that you wont get frustrated with or grow tired of in a couple of months. that way you could learn how to really patch things with aux sends and learn about bus etc etc etc......point im trying to make is.........man....several others said it.....i mean......with all due respect priz i want to see you make it. dont ever let anyone tell you that you CANT do it.....but think LOGICAL priz......you quit your job to do something that you basically dont know anything about. thats a big leap. i think you should READ books on the subject. that way you can dialog and conversate with people....basically you need to read so you wont ask dumb questions(in your own words)

priz u say u want 2 b n-d-pendent. do you have any froms from www.ascap.com or www.bmi.com or from the us copyrights office? you MUST learn the business. if not you will end up like many starving musicians.


i hope u soak up everything that has been said . dont take it to heart. no one is trying to crush or bruise your ego........


czar
 
.....

When I said I was scared of studios, I meant it because their really really really expensive, and your being charged by the minute...that gives you a sense of being rushed etc. I wasn't paying anything when I was in this studio, The producer is a friend of mine, big difference... And I wasn't learning much standing and watching, it's like trying to learn a spanish by hanging around in mexico, when I can just pick up a book and learn much quicker. I didn't have any pressure then, and would have less pressure now because I would have complete creative control. Also I did say I'm planning not to long from now to get some sort of part time job for money, but also have time to work on music... I don't care about asking dumb questions, and I am reading from sites/interviews and learning. yesterday I read two hours about compression and limiting, de-essers and all of that. I'm getting more knowledge everyday... forget about the whole job thing, i told you why I quite, and of course I'm going to have to get a job sooner or later, but for now I don't... My rent has been postpond to start in another month or so and I'm eating for free at the moment... come on, do you really think I'm dumb enough to quite my job if I was gonna starve... well I'm not.
I don't think i'm going to have enough for all the equipment I want anyways... so I'm thinking I'll learn how to create beats until I can afford both a good preamp and a good MIC, because one without the other is pointless and I don't think I can afford both... but that's still to be determined.
P.S. Thanks for the concern...
 
I didn't have any pressure then, and would have less pressure now because I would have complete creative control.
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priz. you WILL have more pressure on you. you WILL eat those words priz. count on it. you WILL eat them....
When I said I was scared of studios, I meant it because their really really really expensive, and your being charged by the minute...that gives you a sense of being rushed etc.
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first studio i went to charged $15 an hour. he used a 24 track tascam,dat,xp50,dr660,dm5,cakewalk 7 or 8(cant remember) various guitars,fx units and samplers. he jacked the price up to $20. my brother said no more. time to buy our own set up. so we did. we didnt read a bbs or anything like that because we knew what we wanted. hard disc recording. so we got a roland. every minute b4 and after was a learning process. dont let ANYONE on this site fool you. no piece of gear is perfect. no set up is perfect. it all depends on the guy behind the board or in your case mouse. you cant have "the best" pre amp or mic in the world. the most expensive console ever made. if yuo cant operate it and bring out the potential................

The producer is a friend of mine, big difference... And I wasn't learning much standing and watching, it's like trying to learn a spanish by hanging around in mexico, when I can just pick up a book and learn much quicker.
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your friend doesnt want to help you? network with him.did you WANT to learn? "when you are in rome do as the romans" you should have been soaking up as much game as possible. if i was in a studio and didnt have to pay i would have watched every button and knob turn and would have asked questions. thats just me. yes you will learn spanish by hanging in mexico...you better. so picking up a book is faster than actual hands on ?

i gotta go. may god bless you priz. i wish you the BEST bro. this is a serious thing man. almost like a curse...god bless


czar
 
I would start off with a Marshall mic, either a mxl57v or 67v ($99 and $169), an Art Tube Pre ($99) a RNC Compressor($175) and a Delta Audiophile soundcard($159)......just start recording and you will learn....get something on "tape" and we'll help you out.....
 
....thanks!

Gidge your idea of getting all this cheap gear makes no sense to me... so I get it, I use it till I figure it out, and that's about the same time it takes to figure out I want better/need better to do what I want.

He wasn't giving me a lesson and I didn't think it was as complicated as it is, this was a year ago, I didn't even know it was possible for me to afford a studio.
I was mainly examinig how he made the music with the equipment and in software, not how it all hooked together and what he used... crist, he had so much equipment, Like 7 keyboards, all types of hardware, computer with pro-tools, and I did learn alot. He moved, I talk to him when he comes to town, I think I'll be seeing him at a party coming up, but everytime I talk to him, he doesn't have much to say, sorta just like if your gonna make music you "have" to have a MAC, you "have" to have pro-tools etc... PC's are no good etc. I get better knowledge from you guys here.

If you wanna help, go to the soundcard section and give your veiws if you have any, on the different souncards...
All I need is to decide, and then I'll finally be able to start my own hands on... I realize theirs no perfect setup, but overboard is better than underboard and incapable of what I wanna do.
I got this money for my studio and I'm gonna use it all for my studio like I intended, I'm sticking to my plan. just a little behind scedule...
 
while that gear I listed is cheap, it is all very usable and is also gear that will grow with you.....

Delta Audiophile.....24bit 96khz, has the same A/D D/A converters as the Delta 44 and Delata 66....good clean card....when you decide you "want better/need better", what you decide on wont be a soundcard...it will be dedicated converters that will have a S/PDIF output that you will connect to the Audiophile's S/PDIF in for clean clear digital transfer....

Art Tube Mp....at$99 the best bang for the buck preamp....Ed(Sonusman) swears by his and reaches for it over many higher priced units for many applications....you will never outgrow this one...while you may decide you want a different preamp later, it will be for different applications, and you can never have too many preamps...and if you have to have just one, this would be one of my top choices......

RNC compressor...by many pros, considered the best preamp for under $1000....really nice.....you wont outgrow this one....you may want more compressors, but this one will always be used......

Marshall mxl67v....well you have to hear this one to believe it....very highly recommended by Harvey Gerst over in the microphone forum....sounds like alot more than $169.....you will always be able to find a use for this baby as you grow.......

so as you see, I have carefully selected this equipment as bang for buck deals, but they are very usable in pro situations........
 
OK, priz, I'm gonna try to help you one more time.

Gidge your idea of getting all this cheap gear makes no sense to me... so I get it, I use it till I figure it out, and that's about the same time it takes to figure out I want better/need better to do what I want.
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If your memory retains more than the last 5 minutes (doubtful) you'll remember that I recommended something quite similar. I'm gonna run through this again and pray for the sake of your credit card company that you get it.

This stuff is hard. For real. It will take you a long time to get something down that you'll be even remotely proud of.

I heard a story once about a guy who walked into Guitar Center with zero music ability or recording experience and asked the GC guy for "the best mic you have." Well, Mr. GC Employee quickly ushered him over to a Neumann U87. The guy looks it over and buys it. $2500 and he didn't even listen to the damn thing! This story makes me mad in a number of ways:

1. Stupid people should not be so rich (can anyone say Dubya?)
2. Mr. GC Employee didn't tell the guy, "maybe you should start out with something like....[insert cheaper mic here]"
3. This guy is probably going to plug the Neumann into a frickin' cd burner or tape deck and wonder why it didn't work

You seem to want to spend a lot of money. This is dangerous. Why?

1. Most of us don't have a lot of money and need to get the most "bang for the buck"
2. When you just spend $2000 on gear and spend the first week with nothing more than farts on a snare drum you're more likely to just give up.
3. You can get 90% of the functionality of a Neumann for something 10% of the price. When you realize this, you might break things.

As HOME recordists, most of us have not seen dollar one for our hobby or passion. Thus, we can't afford to quit our day jobs as you have done or spend oodles of cash on recording gear as you propose to do. It simply isn't justified. Therefore, we have sought out the best gear for the least money. Gidge is giving you the short list. This stuff is proven and tested by pro's. I'll elaborate:

1. Condenser mic: MXL-V67, AT4033
2. Dynamic mic: Shure SM57
3. Mic pre: ART Tube MP, M-Audio DMP2
4. Mixer: Mackie 1202
5. Compressor: RNC
6. Effects processor: Lexicon MPX-100
7. Soundcard: there lots of possibilities but you can't go wrong with M-Audio's Delta series
8. Monitors: Yorkville YSM-1
9. I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff
10. etc.

In the "prosumer" market of audio gear you don't necessarily get what you pay for. Lots of stuff out there is crap, but everything on this list is better than it ought to be for what is costs. If you buy this stuff, you will get 90% of the sound that some people pay thousands for. This last 10% is very expensive, but its worth it to people who have the money, the musical talent, and the recording skill.

My final point is that once you are talented as a musician, recording engineer, mixer, producer, mastering engineer and all the other roles that the home recordist plays, you will make this "bang for the buck" gear sound like a million bucks. Our own sjoko did a song recently with a lovely Nigerian model and chanteuse and he limited himself severely as far as what gear and what software he could use. The result was a very well-recorded, produced, engineered, and mastered song. Expensive gear will never take the place of ability. Get the ability first. Get good gear and use it to develop the ability.
 
Man, Gidge, you beat me to the punch there.

Great minds think alike....so what can explain our similar posts? hehe ;)
 
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