a 'super' vocal trick or not?

[maryslittlesecret]

Hey, guys. It’s been a while since we’ve been able to post something new, but I hope we have something to show for it. I tried something a little unorthodox on the vocal tracks for our new tune – let me know if you like it, don’t like it, or don’t even hear a difference from our old stuff. And as always, other thoughts or suggestions on the overall mix, tones, song, etc. are more than welcome.

The new track is called “Just Like Superman” (a re-recording of a track written well before 3 Doors Down) and you can check it out at http://www.mp3.com/30SoS. As always, we’re looking forward to hearing form you -- thanks!

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS

 

[B.SABBATH]

My first thought is that this another good tune you have added to your page....I'm going to check out some more to try and hear the difference but this is a pretty cool tune..

later

B

 

[erichenryus]

first song i've heard of yours (i'm new in these parts).
i really like it. i thought the vocals jumped a little more out of the mix in this song compared to the others i listened to. for me that's a good thing.

i like your style and your singing is very good.

 

[rats]

I'm waiting for the crazy vocal thing...

This would be more effective IMHO if the synth came up to meet the guitars a bit in the mix. The overdrive is a little sickening especially on the muted strums. It's a good song though. Bonus.

 

[charger]

Wow, a guitar solo!

Okay, I can't figure out the vocal trick. I'm wondering if that 4 second scream from 3:10 - 3:14 was digitally manipulated. If not, you've been practicing! I like this song a lot. Damn, you are a tight guitar player.

 

[maryslittlesecret]

Thanks for all the comments!

B.SABBATH -- glad you like the tune. let us know if you get a chance to compare it with the others...

erichenryus -- welcome aboard! thanks for listening and posting. good to know my ears aren't alone in hearing a subtle difference in the vocals.

rats -- sorry, I should've found a more accurate subject. there's no crazy vocal part or anything, just tried something new (and kind of weird) to get the vox to pop out of the mix a little more. I copied the main vocal tracks and effected one of the takes with the Sonar amp sim. plug-in that mimics a DI. It added a crispness and tightness to the vox. The effect was too much on its own, but blended with the original track, it made the vocals stand out a little more without sounding overly harsh or effected (IMHO) -- sorry for the confusion. Thanks for the comment on the synth chorus. I was unsure of the level -- I didn't want the synth to overtake the guitar... And can you explain the 'sickening' overdrive -- is the tone too distorted? guitar level too high? Not sure I follow...

charger -- got your email as well. will check your mix tomorrow on my home speakers (hitting a show tonight). Yeah, a guitar solo -- we tried to make it sound as little like a guitar solo as possible... Didn't turn out quite the way we heard it in our heads but it's better than nothing (I think). See above for vocal trick explanation (my bad) Happy to say, the scream is real. Thanks all the way around...

Again, sorry for the confusion with the vocal comment. Let me know if you have any additional thoughts of suggestions... Thanks!

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS

 

[mixmkr]

my only negatives..during the solo...the "band"...aka the rhy gtrs, really drop out noticeably...OR (but preferably)the gtr solo should come up a bit...quite a bit. The vocals sound very mono to me...which is what they are...but need some [more?]stereo space around them, imo. I hear a 80's Cinderella kinda sounding vocal...or a def leperd vocal sound fitting better....or even an Ozzie sound. The chorus synth sound like overdubs (which is ok, of course) but it makes them a tad 'out of context' to me. I'd like that in stereo as well.
the synth at 3:06...just before the "scream"
is a kinda late for a "new" sound, possibly...

good song...it's strong point...and rockin' gtrs.

 

[theron]

Well this is kinda hard. I've listen to your songs in the past and did a comparison relative to vocals on a song I was familiar with (My Misery) and as far as sitting better in the mix, I'd say the new tune does have a more plush seat for the vox. However, it is dependent on how consistent your mixes are (very, by my ear) and wether or not you want to repeat the formula. You've a very succesful formula going here. The new vox does seem to gain some exposer in a good way but maybe it is a tad thin. Would it help to toy with the ratio of effect vox to clean vox some more. Even a simple test of adding another(same yet, sung anew) vox might give back the warmth and density I feel that the new approach sacrificed.

Please take into acount that my ears are that of a neophite. I really tried to focus on the nut of your post and respond accordingly. Hope it helped.
Theron.

 

[maryslittlesecret]

Thanks for the input, guys.

mixmkr -- glad you dug the tune. we intentionally left backing guitars out of the solo to open it up a bit, but I can see where the solo could stand to come up. I wasn't entirely pleased with the way it came out so I think I'm subconsciously hiding it... The vocals are entirely mono, but I'd like them to be a bit more spatial -- any suggestions on a stereo delay setting or something (though I'd like to stay away from the 80s metal vocal sounds) ? The chorus keys are overdubs (as is everything else) and the module we used in mono only so again, we'd have to go with some sort of stereo delay (or verb, which I don't know if I have). Any suggestions on how you'd fatten up these areas would be great...

theron -- thanks for the input and I'm glad to hear the mixes sound fairly consistent. I can see your point -- the added crispness came at the cost of some of the warmth. I probably need to A/B this tune with some of the old stuff and see if the new technique sounds that much better... I'm sure my initial excitement in the way this technique turned out will fade awaya and I'll be able to judge this a little more fairly.

Here's another question -- thoughts on the keys oin the chorus? Too soft, too loud, too weird (in terms of trading off with the guitar)? I've had some comments on this and am interested in your opinion. Thanks!

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS

 

[plummet]

hey nice...

where and how did you get this sound? I like it... trying to do the same kind of sound.
plummet
www.tamedbychaos.com

 

[sonnylarsen]

Rock!

My only comment is that you could try panning your "amp" vocal a bit to one direction and maybe push the original the opposite, but not necessarily perfectly symetrical. That would be trippy.

 

[maryslittlesecret]

Hey, plummet -- thanks for posting. We do all our recording on PC in our (little) home studio. In terms of the 'how', are you asking specifically about the vocal sound or more of the overall sound? There's a short explanation of the vocals above -- let me know if you want/need more info.

sonnylarsen -- glad you dug the tune. the 'amp' vocal is actually very quiet compared to the main track so I'm not sure if you'd hear the panning, but that's a good idea -- we'll experiment with the next song or two.

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS

 

[plummet]

well let me tell you...

Really wondering about the rest of it (since you described the vocal stuff) but Mics, how you do drums, mixers, preamps, and stuff...
take a listen to mine maybe that will answer why I'm asking

plummet

 

[MAC2]

Nice job! (as usual )....I thought the vox sounded a little dryer than your past tunes and I agree with the comment that they seemed to sit a little better in the mix. Really liked the sustained scream! cool stuff!

 

[mr.wilson]

Pretty good songs...I don't like the lyrics but the songs themselves are good. I like the style. good job!

 

[maryslittlesecret]

Thanks for all the comments, everyone!

plummet -- I'm afraid I can't offer much help on mics or drums because we record everything direct and use a drum machine. We also don't use a 'mixer' since we do everything on PC with Sonar. Here's an updated copy of a gear list I posted a few months ago. Let me know if this helps or if you have a more specific question I could answer. I'd like to help if possible...

Guitar -- Jackson PS4 through a POD 2.0
Vocal -- AKG C3000 into a dbx 286A with an ART DR-X for effects
Drums -- Boss DR660
Bass -- Ibanez SG 5-string, also through the POD
Keys -- Roland RS-5, Korg Electribe A
Loops -- assorted Sonic Foundry CDs
Soundcard -- WaMi Rack 24
Software -- Sonar 1.02/Sound Forge 5
PC -- Dell 1.6 Pentium 4 PC w/ 512K RAM

MAC2 -- good to hear from you again. i agree that the vocals have found more of their own space with this technique and they do sound a little tighter/dryer. I'm sure I'll experiment a bit more, but this may be a technique I come back to, at least on certain songs...

Mr. Wilson -- thanks for the post. i'm glad you dig the songs and also glad you commented on the lyrics -- with all the times we've posted, I don't think anyone has said much about them (with the probable exception of Job's Song). Anything in particular that you didn't like about the lyrics? Any changes you can suggest? Let us know.

It seems like the consensus on the vocal 'trick' is that it may help a little but it's not a definite winner... Any other thoughts?

J
http://www.mp3.com/30SoS