A few random questions...

[songwritten]

Hey everyone, I've been doing research on all types of recording tryig to find what is best for me. I've looked at different standalone recorders but have settled on computer recording. I'm very familiar with basic computer recording as my guitarist friend and I have a computer set-up at his house.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out a set-up and how to set it up.

I'm in the process of building a computer for recording so the computer isnt a problem.

Heres the gear I'm thinking about working with:
Yamaha MG 166/6FX Mixer (16 channels, 2 aux sends, 4 stereo line ins, and inserts on each mic channel)
Delta 1010 Interface
ART TCS Twin Compressor
Rack Rider Dual 15 band eq
ART TPS 2 channel Preamp
Hosa Direct Out Insert Cables
Behringer B2038A Monitors (for now atleast)
AKG K66 Headphones

Now I have alot of questions...im really sorry about the stupid questions...but I just want to be able to purchase gear in the near future then get recording right away.

1. The yamaha mixer has inserts...im using the hosa cables to make them direct outs...by using the hosa cables, I would plug them into the ins on the delta 1010 wouldnt I? If so, what would I plug into the outs?

2. By using the hosa cables and making my inserts outs instead...what exactly am I gaining?

3. What would be the best way for me to run the compressor and eq into the mixer?

4. Does my set-up seem logical? Would if benefit me if i purchased a patchbay?

Thank you SO much for any help you can offer. I know there is a lot here, I'm very very thankful for your help and I hope when I'm up and running, I can come back here and help someone out like you guys always help me.

Josh O'Neill

 

[ssscientist]

First of all, plug the mixer's left and right outputs into inputs one and two of your Delta 1010. From what I can tell your mixer will not have balanced outputs --- just use instrument cables, not the Hosa insert cables.

The board has four submixes - the outputs from those should go to the next four inputs.

Here's where the inserts come in - insert points are typically used for 'thru processors' like compressors and equalizers. When doing a vocal, you may want to add a little compression and an insert point is the place to add that. When recording guitar you may want to add a little outboard EQ again using the Hosa insert cables.

Here's a thread about insert points:

http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/forum.php?action=view_thread&id=3073&frm=2

And no, you don't need a patchbay for now. Get the stuff set up, record with it for a while and then you'll know if you change your gear around enough to justify a patchbay.

 

[songwritten]

hummm....i think i getcha....

now...by sending the left and right mains and 4 subgroups in....will it mean i can send 6 individual tracks to my delta 1010? or am i way off??? im so confused...please excuse my inexperience....im not really good with the whole input/ouput side of recording.

 

[Farview]

now...by sending the left and right mains and 4 subgroups in....will it mean i can send 6 individual tracks to my delta 1010? or am i way off??? im so confused...please excuse my inexperience....im not really good with the whole input/ouput side of recording.

The only way you can get six outputs like that is if you can keep the 4 subgroups from showing up at the mains. I'm not familiar with the board. If that is the case, then yes you have 6 tracks at once.

 

[ssscientist]

Your board will indeed have 2 main outs and 4 group outs, and they will be able to be used as 6 total outputs from that one board. That will leave you with four open inputs for whatever use you need them for.

If you followed the link I provided you with you should have a better understanding of what an insert is and what it's for. If the explanation was not clear enough let me know and I'll explain it again.

The input/output thing will become second nature after you have your system together and have done a few projects...

 

[songwritten]

I can understand, somewhat, the explanation of inputs/outputs on that page. They also talk about sticking a guitar cable halfway into the inserts and making it a direct out which is something i still don't understand...not so much the technical aspect (tip, ring, sleeve) but more of the performance aspect...By running a system that way...what advantages/disadvantages are there?

Also, is there anyway for me to find out if the Yamaha would definatly make 6 seperate tracks running the way you have described?

What options would I have with the 4 open inputs besides not using them?

Thanks again everyone!

Josh O'Neill

 

[Farview]

1. By running a system that way...what advantages/disadvantages are there?

2.Also, is there anyway for me to find out if the Yamaha would definatly make 6 seperate tracks running the way you have described?

3.What options would I have with the 4 open inputs besides not using them?



Josh O'Neill

1. If you use the inserts as Direct outs you will bypass the eq and fader of the board. If you do this you will be able to have all the channels on the board going to your recorder at once.

2. Look for the routing buttons on the subs, if you can have the subs not dump into the mains, then it will work. If not, you will still have 4 separate tracks.

3. You could use those for mixing things together. Say you are recording a drumset. 2 Kicks, snare, 4toms, 2 overheads. 9 mics, but you only have six outputs. send both of the kicks to sub 1, the snare to sub 2, all 4 toms panned in stereo to busses 3 and 4, and the overheads panned in stereo to the mains. You have now used 9 channels on the board and bussed them down to the 6 inputs on the recorder.

 

[songwritten]

I really like that idea of running drums. I found this on the Yamaha mixer...I still am not sure if the busses seperate from the main outs:

"A square, backlit On ST button functions as a stereo buss mute/on switch for the individual channels or the internal effects return signal (though it doesn't affect the buss assignments) while an illuminated PFL button allows the pre-fader channel signal to be sent to the solo bus for signal checking or gain setting. PFL affects the control room and phones outputs, but not the main outputs, and for gain-setting purposes the PFL level is indicated on the main level meters. All channels (including the internal effects return) are equipped with a pair of routing buttons to send the channel signal to buss outputs 1/2 or 3/4 independent of the On ST switch status. All the faders are 60mm types.

The master section includes the global phantom power switch, with status lamp, plus a rotary level control for the two-track inputs. Two 12-section LED meters monitor the main output or PFL level, and a single rotary control governs both the control-room and phones output levels. Three switches enable monitoring of the main stereo output, either of the group outs or the two-track return. Three stereo faders control the group and mix buss outputs, and are positioned to the right of the stereo fader governing the return level from the internal effects processor. Either group may also be routed into the main stereo mix via a To ST button above the respective group fader.

Master level controls are fitted for the two aux sends, and next to these controls is the aux return section, which includes a stereo level control for feeding signal into the main stereo mix, plus two further send controls for feeding either or both of the aux sends. While careless use of these controls could set up a feedback path, it does allow the returns to be used as additional line inputs with aux sends."

By running the toms in one subgroup, would I have to get the levels correct on each tom before recording?

Thanks so much for the help, I've learnt more already in this thread than I could have ever expected...I'm starting to get it...

 

[Farview]

I can't tell from their pdf file, what the deal is. They claim to have 6 busses so it should work somehow. Go to the store and tell the sales-weasel that you want to see him send a signal to bus 1 and not have it come out the mains. (but have it come out of the bus 1 output) If he can't do it, that is not the board for you (get one of those cheap mackies) or he is not qualified to be selling mixers. (kick him in the nuts and leave the store with your money)

 

[Farview]

Oh and yes by bussing the toms together you do have to get the mix right. It also helps if you use some eq to get them to sound similar because this will be the last time you will be able to do anything to these toms separately

 

[songwritten]

Thanks for all the help Farview and ssscientist! I'll head over to Guitar Center sometime this week and see if they can help me.

 

[songwritten]

I'm probably gonna head up to guitar center sometime this week, but I also contacted Yamaha to see if they could answer the questions you guys recommended I ask about. I found this on their website....I don't know if this is of any help:
"In addition to the main stereo bus, the MG12/4FX feature a stereo group bus and outputs that can be used for convenient channel grouping. The MG16/6FX has an additional two group busses for a total of six buses. Stereo and group bus assign switches are located above each channel fader. You could, for example, mix your instrument sources to the stereo buss while creating separate groups for the main vocal and chorus channels … or any bus configuration you need for your application."
-yamaha website

thanks alot everyone!

 

[Bulls Hit]

songwritten
You're deltat1010 has 8 analog inputs right?

The easiest way to fill these from that mixer is just use the inserts on channels 1-8. Do as sssientsist said and just use ordinary instrument cables (1 click) instead of the hosas.

The stereo out and group outs potentially give you another 6 outputs.

One advantage of using the inserts like this is you can rout a pair of outputs back from the 1010 into 2TR IN and you can run these to Rec Out and Control room/headphone out for monitoring, and you don't run into issues with a feedback loop on the stereo bus.

The other thing you might want to do is run outs from the 1010 back to the mixer so you can aux to your outboard compressor and/or eq units during mixdown

 

[songwritten]

SO MANY OPTIONS!!!

Thanks for posting Bulls Hit (nice name by the way)

Correct me if I'm wrong here...

I run a guitar cable from the insert of the mixer to the insert on the 1010? .....I think I'm confused...

Then a guitar cable back from the outputs on the 1010 to the 2-track in and run them to rec out and control room/headphone out? ....I'm definatly confused on this one....

I'm still confused.... can you please explain further Bulls Hit?

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me!

 

[ssscientist]

'Guitar cable' and 'instrument cable' mean the same thing when used in this context.

Plug a guitar/instrument cable in to the insert point of the mixer to the first click. Doing this will give you a single-channel feed from your board. Now plug the other end of that cable into one of the inputs on your Delta 1010. Repeat the process 7 more times and you will have the start of the setup Bulls Hit was describing.

For monitoring purposes bring the outputs of the Delta 1010 back to the tape input/return for now - you can get the rest of BH's tricks @ your convenience...

 

[Bulls Hit]

Yeh, for monitoring, run 2 cables from 2 of the 1010 outputs to the 2-track ins.

Now run a couple of cables from C-R Out to your powered monitors. The 2-track in also feeds the headphone jack on the mixer. Easy huh?

 

[songwritten]

I understand now! I have one more question.... If I run the instrument cables into the mixer to the first click...does it bypass the eq and level sections of my mixer?

Thanks alot guys!

 

[Bulls Hit]

Yes I think so. I'm pretty sure the inserts are post preamp, and pre eq & faders

 

[songwritten]

Is losing the eq and levels a significant loss? Is buying an outboard eq be something I should do? Is there anything else I'm forgetting that could help?

Thanks a lot everyone...we're so close to having me set...very very close...thanks again!

 

[Bulls Hit]

I don't believe so.

When I record drums, for example, I leave all the mixer eq settings flat and the faders at 0db. That way I capture the raw unadulterated sound and then apply eq when mixing in the daw