1/4" or 1/2" quality?

[audiophilez]

I am in the market for a analog tape recorder. To be honest, 4 tracks is fine. I was wondering if a 1/4" 4 track would have the same sound characteristics as a 1/2" 8 track. I would like the 1/2" but price tends to lean me more twards the 4 track. If their sound is "identical"(or perhaps even similar) I will go with the 4 track 1/4". If the 8 track is of obviously better sound quality, I will go with that.

Guy Lewis

 

[Dr ZEE]

I'd say: it's similar
*******
but not 'identical'... in analog world nothing is identical.

 

[audiophilez]

similar as in 1/4" is lower quality than 1/2"? Is the difference minute if any?

 

[EDAN]

1/2 is going to be a step up in quality, a rather big step. I was just reading something about this the other day, I'll see if I can find the link. The article was talking about how there is more to tracks vrs tape width then, well just the amount of tracks and the tape width. In other words even with 8 tracks on a 1/2 you get better quality than 4 tracks on 1/4, it was explained in detail why this is. On top of that there are other things goin on, the electronics and heads are going to usually be better on a 1/2 machine thus adding another factor.

 

[cjacek]

Sure, the heads and electronics will be a bit different between models and makes but we're still talking about the so called "semi-pro" and "narrow track" format - 1/2" 8 track and 1/4" 4 track. Nothing wrong with it but it is what it is and imho the difference in sound quality between the two is going to be similar, as Dr. Zee pointed out. You may get a bit more tape hiss on the 1/2" 8 track format as the result of the additive effect of each track's hiss level vs that of (1/4") 4 tracks but generally speaking though, without being completely anal about it, the quality will be similar but not identical, again as the good Doc pointed out

Now, if you want to hear a significant difference, double the tape width while keeping the track count the same!

 

[A Reel Person]

Hi!!!

I'd have to differ with the previous opinion, (EDAN).

A 1/4" 4-track and a 1/2" 8-track should have the same overall fidelity *(AT THE SAME TAPE SPEED), with the obvious exception that the 1/4" has 4-tracks and the 1/2" has 8,... given that all other things are equal *(HEADS/ELECTRONICS), such as in a series of units like the Tascam 30-Series (32/34/38).

Without consulting the (Tascam) manual, (which I'll do later), the track width on the 1/4" 4-track should be virtually the same as the 1/2" 8-track. Also, the electronics of these (Tascam 30-Series) decks are virtually alike.

IF, by chance, you're comparing different makes and brands of recorders, then all bets are off, and they should be compared on a case-by-case basis.

F/I, a Tascam 38 won't sound quite the same as an 80-8, nor will it sound exactly the same as an Otari or Ampex recorder, although the track width & tape speed on these different decks should be virtually the same. At that point, differences in the heads and electronics will give a characteristically different sound for each deck.

So, given what you're comparing is not clearly defined, there's a lot of leeway for differing answers on general fidelity of units. I've framed my basic answer in a Tascam:Tascam comparison of formats,... but there's a lot more to it if/when you mix & match various formats and brands for comparison.

 

[Dr ZEE]

Now, if you want to hear a significant difference, double the tape width while keeping the track count the same:

.. and then you can start a significant debate of hearing the difference, which IS debatable

 

[The Ghost of FM]

.. and then you can start a significant debate of hearing the difference, which IS debatable

Only if your hearing is impaired.

Cheers!

 

[Dr ZEE]

btw, to sum up what other guys are saying... well, sort of "sum" ..
there's no 'practical' answer to the question, simply because practically there's no such thing as two the same machines but with the only different tape width/amt.of.tracks (there are other differences contributing to the sound (or use the term "sound quality" if you wish... which, btw, I prefer never use, as I don't think that there's such thing as good or bad quality of the sound, but I think that there are such things that can act as a source of pleasant sound or a source of unpleasant sound according to a personal evaluation of a person, who happens to be pleased or displeased ).
There are similar machines thou... but the 'similarities' are rather superficial... sort of.
Different analog machines of similar design do sound different... yet they all are pretty much similarly GREAT Like different kind of food(s) in the Same Great Restaurant

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I think that there are such things that can act as a source of pleasant sound or a source of unpleasant sound according to a personal evaluation of a person, who happens to be pleased or displeased )

Art + humanity + personal taste = recipe for an argument.

Cheers!

 

[Dr ZEE]

Only if your hearing is impaired.

Cheers!

heh heh
The ones with hearing aid don't debate hearing, the ones with golden ear do.

 

[The Ghost of FM]

heh heh
The ones with hearing aid don't debate hearing, the ones with golden ear do.

Actually, I tend to consider myself as a person with golden ears but I also have the wisdom of age and experience to not get into these debates as they're largely a waste of time.

I sold high end audiophile gear professionally for more then 20 years and there's nothing worse then getting into a debate with someone over what piece of gear sounds better then the other. It always ended in an argument and a NO SALE in the end.

My best customers always picked their gear by listening to the product, seeing if it met their needs and their budget and who trusted me/the store I worked for to look after them after the sale.

The guys who mostly loved the techno-babel debates were usually the fat, ugly, socially retarded morons who's whole pathetic life revolved around talking about the gear and rarely to never about the music that it was designed to reproduce.

Cheers!

 

[Beck]

Art + humanity + personal taste = recipe for an argument.

Cheers!

I contest! The gentleman from Canukistan is out of order!

 

[The Ghost of FM]

I contest! The gentleman from Canukistan is out of order!

You're right, Tim.

I am out of order and I apologize.

I've spent the past couple of days fighting with the government, the banks and my lawyer, trying to deal with closing out my dad's estate and while I should be talking this out and working through it, I come in here instead to bust some chops.

Cheers!

 

[Beck]

You're right, Tim.

I am out of order and I apologize.

I've spent the past couple of days fighting with the government, the banks and my lawyer, trying to deal with closing out my dad's estate and while I should be talking this out and working through it, I come in here instead to bust some chops.

Cheers!

Think nothing of it Jeff -- I was just trying to lighten things up a bit, because I know exactly what you're dealing with -- seems like yesterday when I was dealing with the loss of my dad and on top of it all, lawyers, wills, estate, medical bills, etc. You don't need to apologize to me or anyone else. We're here for you through the good times and sad times. Hang in there man.

~Tim

 

[Dr ZEE]

I'd say, there's such thing as quality of government. Also it's never good. Debatably? - Don't think so.

 

[Dr ZEE]

oh, btw, lil'thing, Jeff..
in my "post" "golden ear" is in italic. Did not want to put it in "*", so not be flat sarcastic, but yet to highlight something... which, shall I say, means: golden ear = "Golden ear not well connected with the front part of the brain" ... or something like that

 

[audiophilez]

Thank you guys for the great input (and for the moment we all just shared), I think I want an 8 track that converts to 4 tracks making wider track width(I wonder if a tascam tsr-8 or a 38 does that?) I am recording mainly my taylor guitar micd' with a rode nt2000 and plugged into a groovetubes "brick"(tube Preamp), This sounds very good and I want to hook it up to analog to complete my beauty.

 

[cjacek]

Thank you guys for the great input (and for the moment we all just shared), I think I want an 8 track that converts to 4 tracks making wider track width(I wonder if a tascam tsr-8 or a 38 does that?) I am recording mainly my taylor guitar micd' with a rode nt2000 and plugged into a groovetubes "brick"(tube Preamp), This sounds very good and I want to hook it up to analog to complete my beauty.

Converting in such a way may only be possible with special modifications on certain high end machines and would be prohibitively expensive. None of the TASCAM machines can be converted in such a way. I think certain Ampex or Studer machines can do it but this is a bit beyond me.

Seriously, you'll be very happy with any of the stand alone TASCAM 4 or 8 track machines. Just pick the one in best condition, ideally do a full allignment (I'd have a tech do this) and maintain it properly. Don't sweat the track width thing too much. It's nice but you can live without it.

 

[Beck]

I was wondering if a 1/4" 4 track would have the same sound characteristics as a 1/2" 8 track.

There are no remarkable differences between these two formats. The Tascam 30-Series is a good example, as ARP pointed out above.

The listed specs of the Model 34 (1/4” 4-track) and the Model 38 (1/2” 8-track) are identical by the numbers. Technically speaking, the track width is marginally greater on the 1/2" 8-track by 0.003 of an inch.

Track Widths
Model 38: 0.039 inches
Model 34: 0.036 inches

For reference the standard track width for 2” 24-track is 0.040 inches.

These are all very close. The difference in track width between the Tascam 38 and a 2” 24-track is less than the thickness of 1-mil audiotape, such as Quantegy 407. As you can see the Model 34 is not much smaller. Track width alone doesn’t distinguish these machines from each other.

Other brands and models will be about the same… for example the Tascam 44 vs. 48, or Otari MX5050/8 vs. MX5050/4.

In general a ¼” 4-track will compare favorably with its ½” 8-track sibling in the same series, where electronics will be the same.

Be sure you really only need four tracks. Many people find that whatever they buy, they soon wish they had more.

~Tim