1/2" multitrack as mastering machine?

  • Thread starter Thread starter WarmJetGuitar
  • Start date Start date
W

WarmJetGuitar

New member
Is it by any means possible to use a 1/4" or 1/2" multitrack as a mastering deck with any success?
We've stuck on mastering decks available either being too freaking expensive or messed up.

How would another machine at the vinyl pressing plant react to that? How important is it to calibrate our Fostex G16 before attempting this?

Hope you can help us out here. Sorry if this question have been answered before.
 
You are assuming the pressing plant will have a G16-99.9999999% will not.Yes it should be calibrated properly.If you want the "analog tape sound", master to the G16 and bounce back into digital to a format that the pressing house will accept.
 
I've looked into this a bit. In my case to use my 1/2" 4 track as a mastering deck. One of the problems you run into is having every channel of your electronics calibrated perfectly... if not, you're going to have some pretty off sounding albums. I would consider this very important. Also, I don't remember the exact noise spec, but on playback you do gain noise due to the track separations. More tracks = more noise. It was a while ago, but the end result of the research I did was that the cumulative losses almost or nearly cancel out the possible gain in fidelity, making it not worth the effort.
 
wkrbee said:
You are assuming the pressing plant will have a G16-99.9999999% will not.Yes it should be calibrated properly.If you want the "analog tape sound", master to the G16 and bounce back into digital to a format that the pressing house will accept.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming that the mastering plant got a regular 2-track mastering deck. Sorry for not being clear enough - the flu and a bit of smoking is my excuse...
All recording have been done on tape and it already got the tape sound, but it'd be nice the mastering was done from the mixdowns on the laptop to a great sounding machine along with a small amount of compression.

sam humans said:
I've looked into this a bit. In my case to use my 1/2" 4 track as a mastering deck. One of the problems you run into is having every channel of your electronics calibrated perfectly... if not, you're going to have some pretty off sounding albums. I would consider this very important. Also, I don't remember the exact noise spec, but on playback you do gain noise due to the track separations. More tracks = more noise. It was a while ago, but the end result of the research I did was that the cumulative losses almost or nearly cancel out the possible gain in fidelity, making it not worth the effort.
Click to expand...

More tracks, more noise? No good as I've assumed that I could compensate for the machine not being half track by filling up 1-8 with L and 9-16 for R.
Guess it's a while since our machine has been calibrated, regardless we'll need calibration tape and an osciloscope pretty soon.

Thanks for your info so far!
 
Using a .5" playback deck with G16 recorded matl.Can give you weird phase issues unless the azimuth is accurate on both decks,plus the difference in the track spacing,(lots of dead space between tracks on the G16), can cause problems.General "rule of thumb"- everytime you double the number of tracks you add 3db of noise.But hey,it might give you the "sound"you want.
 
Thanks for the info. Sounds like we might ask a mastering engineer instead. We're not into a blanket of tape noise as 8/16 tracks on narrow track machines gives some and our main attraction about tape is the sonics. A bit is fine but narrow track machines without NR gives a sufficient amount
 
Mastering to vinyl from this setup is a bad idea.

I'm all for experimentation, but you'll likely end up with a strange-sounding result if you do this.

You might get a 'fatter' sound, but this will likely cause audible phase problems.

To get an idea of what this might sound like, record a mix in this manner on the deck, then gang the 8 channels left and 8 channels right when you play it back ... you'll hear all sorts of problems.
 
Last edited:
At the risk of saying buy a 1/2 track machine, how expensive is too expensive. A Tascam 32 should not be too expensive and will do the job. Otari MX5050's are very very common, although often worked to death. I recall a previous thread on this and a good explanation of why stacking tracks as you contemplate does not work well.

Also, a response to a post of mine at tapeheads indicated it is possible to convert a Teac A-3300SX from 1/4 to 1/2 and is not that difficult. I have not yet followed up on the cost, as I do need a 1/4 track machine that will play back at the slower speed, but the concept is intriguing, and I have an Otari 1/4 track machine that I can adjust for lower speed.

JRF sells heads specifically for this purpose for larger tape formats, 1/2" and up. So you may have other options.
 
wkrbee said:
Using a .5" playback deck with G16 recorded matl.Can give you weird phase issues unless the azimuth is accurate on both decks,plus the difference in the track spacing,(lots of dead space between tracks on the G16), can cause problems.General "rule of thumb"- everytime you double the number of tracks you add 3db of noise.But hey,it might give you the "sound"you want.
Click to expand...

This is not totally accurate,cause if you turn the volumn down every time a tk. is added, you want add 3db of noise times the amount of tks.:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
WarmJetGuitar said:
Is it by any means possible to use a 1/4" or 1/2" multitrack as a mastering deck with any success?
We've stuck on mastering decks available either being too freaking expensive or messed up.

How would another machine at the vinyl pressing plant react to that? How important is it to calibrate our Fostex G16 before attempting this?

Hope you can help us out here. Sorry if this question have been answered before.
Click to expand...

Im not sure what your question is here?? Of course it is possible and not only possible but 1/4" and 1/2" decks at 15 IPS made some of the greatest mixes in history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I'm selling a Tascam 22-2 1/4" 2-track and a Teac 3300SX-2T both working well for $200 each if you're interested. Both are working well and are proper 2-track decks that run 15 ips. It's a pickup deal in SF Bay Area because I don't trust myself to pack them up securely if you happen to be nearby !

Only reason I'm selling is because I have an Ampex 440 mono and I am buying a 440 stereo deck soon ... don't have the space to keep them all.
 
What you are trying to do is not worth the compromises. Even if there are no phase problems,

1. The total combined track width will probably be close to that of a regular quarter inch stereo machine, since half of the quarter inch width will be wasted with guard bands.

2. There are not many 30ips Fostexes around, and if you are thinking of converting a 15ips machine to 30ips then there are component changes needed to make record EQ correct.
I also suspect that on a self-converted machine the bias won't be adjustable within the necessary range for the higher speed.

Let alone the fact that Fostex machines are not wonderful sounding (sorry to offend anyone).

Regards

David
 
If I were you and wanted a tape mixdown machine, I would buy a 1/2 track 1/4" machine that runs at 15ips. Track width of a 1/4" 1/2 track is 1/8" (approx.) which is better then a 24 track 2" machine.

1/4" 1/2 track at 15ips is also a standard format, my old mixes were all done on this format back in the day (and tell the kids of today that.... and they don't believe you LOL)

Just a word on 1/4" running at 30ips, you will find that the bass sounds better with the tape running at 15ips (I can't remember the reason for this), also 1/2 track means that the full tape width is used in one direction, some tape machines were 1/4 track and had 2 tracks (stereo) in one direction then the tape was flipped over and you got a different 2 tracks (stereo) in the other, track width on these machines is only 1/16" (approx.)

Alan.
 
WarmJetGuitar said:
Is it by any means possible to use a 1/4" or 1/2" multitrack as a mastering deck with any success?
We've stuck on mastering decks available either being too freaking expensive or messed up.

How would another machine at the vinyl pressing plant react to that? How important is it to calibrate our Fostex G16 before attempting this?

Hope you can help us out here. Sorry if this question have been answered before.
Click to expand...

Im pretty positive (know) that 1/2" 30IPS tape machines were PRO decks back in the day. Not to many people like us on here could afford them then are now, and plus the tape cost and matinence on them. So I used a TEAC 3300SX 1/4" 15IPS (1/2 TK) that I had "souped up" and did great sounding mixdowns on and still LUST after it every time I think about it !!!:cool:
 
TASCAM MAN said:
Im not sure what your question is here?? Of course it is possible and not only possible but 1/4" and 1/2" decks at 15 IPS made some of the greatest mixes in history!
Click to expand...

Yes, but those were done using a 2-track mastering deck. He wants to use the multitrack - i.e. 16 tracks on 1/2" or 4-8 tracks on 1/4" to try and create a tape that will play back on a 2-track stereo deck. And that's not going to work too well, doubly so if the idea is to play it back on a different type of machine.

EDIT: And from what I've heard, 30IPS does vary a lot depending on what you're trying to record, but it is said to wipe out the bass, things below 100Hz drop off rapidly, so they say. I've not had a 30IPS machine so I haven't tried it myself.
 
To clarify:tape has a certain amount of noise- that would be the lower number of the dynamic range of the format,even if you are playing back a brand new tape,and a little more if you have recorded and erased.So all those blank guard bands between tracks on the G16 will contribute residual noise when playing back in a 1/2 track machine.I misspoke-using 16 track playback as the basis for my 3db comment.
 
And in most cases at 30ips pretty much everything below 100Hz rolls off drastically.Most of your Tr-808 kick /rap stuff is recorded at 15ips-and some times at 7.5ips for a specific effect.
 
I better just give up the idea and just use the multitrack for what it does best and ask if there's a good deck at the mastering studio. Would really love a final tape mastering as the digital mixdown from tape have made the high-mid frequencies a tiny bit too harsh compared to the original recording.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top