E
ecc83
Well-known member
" I can only hump it for so long, "
TOO much information friend Miroslav!
Dave.
TOO much information friend Miroslav!
Dave.
rob aylestone
Moderator
I suspect that's an English phrase they probably don't use Dave!
Miroslav's story has made me 100% positive that the work I was planning for this year will involve real builders, and I'll happily pay them to get the cuts and bruises while I sit in the warm and watch!
Miroslav - can I ask a question on your location. Little things you've said make me think you have very hit summers but very cold winters? The HVAC comments and the equipment installed seem to back this up. Do you live with these big extremes in weather? I'm guessing, but is the insulation in your studio serving dual purpose - in that it keeps sound in, but also moderates the weather? Does it go badly wrong when you open doors or windows in terms of condensation? I don't have aircon, as most homes here don't and my studio simply takes in fresh air, and dumps the hot air - heating comes from radiators in the winter and in the summer, the fresh air is enough. What are your temperature extremes where you are?
Miroslav's story has made me 100% positive that the work I was planning for this year will involve real builders, and I'll happily pay them to get the cuts and bruises while I sit in the warm and watch!
Miroslav - can I ask a question on your location. Little things you've said make me think you have very hit summers but very cold winters? The HVAC comments and the equipment installed seem to back this up. Do you live with these big extremes in weather? I'm guessing, but is the insulation in your studio serving dual purpose - in that it keeps sound in, but also moderates the weather? Does it go badly wrong when you open doors or windows in terms of condensation? I don't have aircon, as most homes here don't and my studio simply takes in fresh air, and dumps the hot air - heating comes from radiators in the winter and in the summer, the fresh air is enough. What are your temperature extremes where you are?
E
ecc83
Well-known member
Prob' right about the phrase Rob! (and, our colonial buddies, be careful who you use the word "fanny" to over here!)
WRT the heating/cooling. Who knows where we shall be in a decade? Essex might be growing lemons outside or, if they FU the Gulf stream as has been suggested, we will be Siberian.
Nearly had the neighbour's back fence in MY garden Sunday morning.
Dave.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
"Hump it"...means to carry a heavy load, work hard. I think it may be originally an Army phrase....carrying heavy backpacks and/or getting over that hill...the two "humps"...?
AFA the weather...no, it's not extreme both summer and winter. I'm not sure there are many places that have both extreme seasons, usually one or the other...but here where I am, it's moderate, with maybe some hot-n-humid periods, and also some bitter cold periods...but those are both passing weather systems, not the usual all-summer, all-winter trends.
Hottest summer period is late-July to early Sept...and we might get a run of 95+F (35+C) days some summers, but not constant, and some years we don't even see them. Likewise, in the winter...usually late Jan to late Feb we can get some "Alberta Clippers", that drop down from Canada and we'll see temps go down to single digits, (which would be in the -10-15C range), but those are usually a few days here and there. This year, the winter has been quite mild...most of February will have daytime temps in the mid-40s here (5-10C), and this year we've had minimal snow...though we get years with maybe 2-3 heavy snow storms.
All in all...I wouldn't call it extreme heat or cold here...but in the summer, I like my AC. I'm not comfortable even when it's in the mid-80s outside, and higher humidity. Once the temps get into the high-70s...that's too hot for me, and inside the studio, with gear on...just opening windows isn't going to be comfy, not to mention, all the humidity comes in, which is not good for the gear.
I've got a lot of guitars and other wood instruments that don't like it too humid (or too dry)...not to mention the tape. I have a lot of reels, and they need a steady climate.
In the winter...it doesn't take much to keep the studio warm once the gear is on...but this new space is pretty large, with a high ceiling...so it will take more effort to regulate the temp, though with the insulation and heavier wall construction, once the desired temp is reached...the room will hold it better.
There's nothing unusual that I've done WRT heating and cooling. I mean, if this was just a large family room...it would have the same setup, maybe a little less cooling power than what I went for...and AFA the heat, I just wanted both hot water baseboard along with the heat pump that is part of the AC unit. The heat pump can't handle temps when they get down into the teens and single digits....though they had one unit that was the same as mine, but with added heat capability, down to 15F...though I didn't bother, since I have the baseboard too.
rob aylestone
Moderator
I think that's much more extreme than we get. -1C (appreciate you converting, I can't remember the old F system now) would be perhaps the coldest we've had here for a long time, and we got up to 80F for a few days - not a very wide spread.
We do have 'humpers' on music shows, unskilled folk who push flight cases and carry the heavy stuff in, but it's also a slang word for having sex - and that term is probably more in use than the carry heavy stuff. It's a term you can use in mixed company and generally not offend anyone - as in "We caught a couple humping in the store room".
We do have 'humpers' on music shows, unskilled folk who push flight cases and carry the heavy stuff in, but it's also a slang word for having sex - and that term is probably more in use than the carry heavy stuff. It's a term you can use in mixed company and generally not offend anyone - as in "We caught a couple humping in the store room".
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Well...for me, temps in the 30s-40sF during the daytime, are not what I would consider extreme, but then, I spent many years doing a LOT of skiing, and I think that raised my tolerance...though as the years pile on, I'm less motivated to go out in real bitter cold, but I did it many times back in my skiing days. 
I'm not as bothered by colder weather as I am when it gets hot-n-humid. I can always add a layer if I'm feeling cold, but only so much you can do when it's hot.
Outside in the yard...on a beach or in a park...I don't mind the heat. It's when you are constantly in that clammy/sweaty mode that I can't stand. I don't think I could ever live in the tropics...though I guess you can develop a tolerance to that too, but probably best to do so at a young age.
So no matter what is going on outside, when I come inside, I like to be cool, dry and comfortable.
I'm not as bothered by colder weather as I am when it gets hot-n-humid. I can always add a layer if I'm feeling cold, but only so much you can do when it's hot.
Outside in the yard...on a beach or in a park...I don't mind the heat. It's when you are constantly in that clammy/sweaty mode that I can't stand. I don't think I could ever live in the tropics...though I guess you can develop a tolerance to that too, but probably best to do so at a young age.
So no matter what is going on outside, when I come inside, I like to be cool, dry and comfortable.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
DAY 110
Spent the last couple of days trying to find of all things...longer screws for some of my network/phone outlet cover plates, and for my ceiling fans.
It's a small thing to think about...but when you do double 5/8" drywall...all the electric boxes end up being recessed a lot deeper, because you can only bring them forward up to a point, and still be able to attach them to the studs. So the screws that hold outlets and cover plates in some cases, need to be at least 1/2" or more longer than normal ones. You would think that would be an easy thing to find....not.
Oh they have all kinds of screws at the hardware stores...but getting the right size, thread count and with the extra length...not so straightforward. The ones for the outlets I was able to find something that "worked"...but the ones for the ceiling fans, they had to be the exact same kind as what came with the heavy duty fixtures meant to support up the 70lbs of ceiling fan...so I couldn't just get something that kinda worked...they had to fit the box screw holes perfectly, since that's what supports the weight of the fans. After going to a couple hardware stores...and coming up short (literally, the lonest was 3"...I needed at least 3.5")....I had to order them online....four lousy screws (I got 8 just to have extras).
Other than that...tonight I spent 3 hours adjusting the baseboard heat elements.
When they installed them, the plumber did the basic installation...and I was very clear that I didn't want any "noises" from the elements. He said it would be fine...well, no it wasn't. They had to run the return line parallel to the elements with the fins...and everything was touching. So when the heat comes on, the pipe and elements expand and move...and as they rub, the fins will "ping" and "pop" anywhere that they are touching and/or hung up, until they settle.
I let it go for the last couple of weeks...I wanted the pipes to work themselves in for awhile...but tonight I decided it was time to sort it out.
I knew what the cause was...and what needed to be done. Basically, the element had to "float" without touching the housing or the return pipe...so the return pipe needed to be hung/suspended away from the elements...and then everything tweaked and properly centered, and also all the hangers bolted solid (they didn't do all of them). In the end...it's now dead-quiet, not a single "ping" or "pop".
Anyway...I knew I would have to do some adjusting, and it was to be expected with baseboard piping...but the value of the baseboard heat was worth it, since it's a big room (tonight it's like 9F degrees).
I hope to start installing some of the initial wall treatments this weekend...or at least get them ready. These are going to be 4'x8' wood panels, partly as accent pieces, but also as part of the acoustic treatment, as they well start to tame the bare drywall surface. I have to stain them first...then cut to size and install.
By the end of the next week I should be doing all the wood trim around windows and beams...and hopefully my tile floor will be done too.
Then comes the hardwood floor.
Spent the last couple of days trying to find of all things...longer screws for some of my network/phone outlet cover plates, and for my ceiling fans.
It's a small thing to think about...but when you do double 5/8" drywall...all the electric boxes end up being recessed a lot deeper, because you can only bring them forward up to a point, and still be able to attach them to the studs. So the screws that hold outlets and cover plates in some cases, need to be at least 1/2" or more longer than normal ones. You would think that would be an easy thing to find....not.
Oh they have all kinds of screws at the hardware stores...but getting the right size, thread count and with the extra length...not so straightforward. The ones for the outlets I was able to find something that "worked"...but the ones for the ceiling fans, they had to be the exact same kind as what came with the heavy duty fixtures meant to support up the 70lbs of ceiling fan...so I couldn't just get something that kinda worked...they had to fit the box screw holes perfectly, since that's what supports the weight of the fans. After going to a couple hardware stores...and coming up short (literally, the lonest was 3"...I needed at least 3.5")....I had to order them online....four lousy screws (I got 8 just to have extras).
Other than that...tonight I spent 3 hours adjusting the baseboard heat elements.
When they installed them, the plumber did the basic installation...and I was very clear that I didn't want any "noises" from the elements. He said it would be fine...well, no it wasn't. They had to run the return line parallel to the elements with the fins...and everything was touching. So when the heat comes on, the pipe and elements expand and move...and as they rub, the fins will "ping" and "pop" anywhere that they are touching and/or hung up, until they settle.
I let it go for the last couple of weeks...I wanted the pipes to work themselves in for awhile...but tonight I decided it was time to sort it out.
I knew what the cause was...and what needed to be done. Basically, the element had to "float" without touching the housing or the return pipe...so the return pipe needed to be hung/suspended away from the elements...and then everything tweaked and properly centered, and also all the hangers bolted solid (they didn't do all of them). In the end...it's now dead-quiet, not a single "ping" or "pop".
Anyway...I knew I would have to do some adjusting, and it was to be expected with baseboard piping...but the value of the baseboard heat was worth it, since it's a big room (tonight it's like 9F degrees).
I hope to start installing some of the initial wall treatments this weekend...or at least get them ready. These are going to be 4'x8' wood panels, partly as accent pieces, but also as part of the acoustic treatment, as they well start to tame the bare drywall surface. I have to stain them first...then cut to size and install.
By the end of the next week I should be doing all the wood trim around windows and beams...and hopefully my tile floor will be done too.
Then comes the hardwood floor.
mjbphotos
Moderator
They make electric box extenders for just your situation, Miro - well, really made for people throwing another layer of drywall over an existing wall treatment. They are only in the 'blue plastic' box style. Home Depot had them many years ago, last time I did that kind of work).
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I know about box extenders....they also make boxes that are adjustable by turning a screw to move it forward or back into position.
The electrician didn't like them...I didn't like them....and my contractor said, "Did you look at their price?"
Oh...I also wrapped the boxes In putty...so longer boxes = more putty....and couldn't wrap putty on the adjustable boxes, it would have been a problem trying to adjust after the putty was on them.
We instead just moved the regular boxes forward AFA possible. There really wasn't any problem to doing that...everything worked out fine.
I just didn't expect to have to search for longer screws...I thought they would be pretty common.
The price of the adjustable boxes was stupid...like 3X the regular boxes...and I alone needed about 25 of them, not counting what the electrician used.
The longer screws were only a few bucks once I found them. Right now everything is installed.
JimmyS1969
MOODerator
Always more expense. Never under budget...
Looking great man!
Looking great man!
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Thanks!
I knew I was going over a month into the build...
...but I was all-in, and I wouldn't cut corners or go cheap just to stay within budget.TBH...I anticipated that it was going to be about 25% more than the original quote...so it's not that I went over budget, rather I went over the original construction quote.
I was mostly thinking that the closer I stay to the original quote...the more would be left over to spend on audio gear, but I'm not hurting for anything there.
I'll still have enough of my original, total projection to toss on some more gear. I just need to see how much the acoustic treatment will add to the total price. I want to get some ready made diffusers, to along with what I have already, and some additional panels I may build myself...but I'm getting tired of the building stuff...I just want all this to be done.
bluesfordan
Member
I hear you about just wanting the stuff done. I moved on the 4th of February (more on that elsewhere) and have been running ragged since. Today I had to make myself relax and ice my sore left knee, in spite of so many boxes that need to be emptied and taken back to the house and refilled again. I'm almost done but it just doesn't seem to end. I've been giving stuff away trying to find home for the rest and a lot is just getting chucked in the landfill because I just don't have the time and energy left to deal with it anymore. You accumulate a lot of crap when you live somewhere for 55 years.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Tell me about it.
I already asked my contractor about getting a 20 yard dumpster once I'm done so I can clean house. He had a 30 yard dumpster when they did the demo, and I tossed a bunch of larger/heavier items (it was packed to the top limit)...but I look around now, and I can see a LOT of stuff that I need to clear out...and I just don't have the time or energy to sit there and do yard sales, or eBay or C-list...or even to give it away...though I did pack up a bunch of clothes that I took the the Salvation Army at the end of December...but it's a lot of work to load/unload all the stuff.
I thought about having a "Free" Yard Sale...but then, I would have to take all the stuff and lay it out, and then everything that is left, I still have to get rid of.
No...the more I think about it, a 20 yard dumpster will allow me to not only clear out some unwanted furniture and house stuff, but also to clean out my two sheds and toss everything that has accumulated, that I have not used for the last 15-20 years, and will not need.
Someone said there are goodwill/church organizations that will come and take it...but I STILL need to get it all laid out. I'm not going to have people come and walk around my house picking up things I point at.
So the dumpster is looking like the simple solution...and TBH, I kinda hate going that route, since I believe anything that "can" be used, should be used...but that's how I ended up with 20 years worth of "stuff" that I don't really need.
Believe it or not...some audio gear is going in that dumpster too. I will most likely toss my Tascam M3500 24-channel console, including a bunch of extra parts for it.
I tried selling it...for really cheap...both on eBay and local musician classifieds...not a single person showed interest. I may list it locally one more time for "Free" because I hate to see a working, decent piece of gear get tossed...but very few people want something that size. It's a shame...but it is what it is.
bluesfordan
Member
Believe it or not...some audio gear is going in that dumpster too. I will most likely toss my Tascam M3500 24-channel console, including a bunch of extra parts for it.
I tried selling it...for really cheap...both on eBay and local musician classifieds...not a single person showed interest. I may list it locally one more time for "Free" because I hate to see a working, decent piece of gear get tossed...but very few people want something that size. It's a shame...but it is what it is.
dang, I looked those up. Ai yi yi. That's a honking big piece of kit. Even for free I couldn't take anything like that, there's just no way. Good luck.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
DAY 112
Today (technically yesterday, Sunday)...I started getting some of the additional wall treatments I will be doing.
These are 4' x 8' exterior wood siding panels known as T1-11, that are tongue-n-groove. I like to use the for interior wall treatment...because they have a very rough, porous surface, plus the grooves, and they are nice and thick. For exterior siding use, most people use the once that have 8" OC sections between the grooves...but they also make them with 4"OC sections, which look really great for interior wall treatment.
I've used them before, in my current/old studio space...I stained them, and then put them on a couple of the walls...and they made a noticeable change to the sound in the room...much better than bare drywall.
So for my new studio space, I'm again using the 4" OC panels, but this time I'm cutting them in half, lengthwise...trimming off the "tongues" and the excess groove and lip after cutting in half...so I end up with nice 2' x 8' panels (they actually end up 23.25" wide after trimming).
Once all cut to size, they will be stained, some molding trim added, and then they will be placed on the walls at intervals, and in-between them will be broadband treatment (among other things).
I also have a couple of sheets with the 8" OC panels...so I'll pick a spot for them, probably on my front wall. When I'm done, there will be 20 of these panels spread out on the 4 walls...with 8 on the back wall, 4 on each of the side walls, and 4 on the front wall.
Today (technically yesterday, Sunday)...I started getting some of the additional wall treatments I will be doing.
These are 4' x 8' exterior wood siding panels known as T1-11, that are tongue-n-groove. I like to use the for interior wall treatment...because they have a very rough, porous surface, plus the grooves, and they are nice and thick. For exterior siding use, most people use the once that have 8" OC sections between the grooves...but they also make them with 4"OC sections, which look really great for interior wall treatment.
I've used them before, in my current/old studio space...I stained them, and then put them on a couple of the walls...and they made a noticeable change to the sound in the room...much better than bare drywall.
So for my new studio space, I'm again using the 4" OC panels, but this time I'm cutting them in half, lengthwise...trimming off the "tongues" and the excess groove and lip after cutting in half...so I end up with nice 2' x 8' panels (they actually end up 23.25" wide after trimming).
Once all cut to size, they will be stained, some molding trim added, and then they will be placed on the walls at intervals, and in-between them will be broadband treatment (among other things).
I also have a couple of sheets with the 8" OC panels...so I'll pick a spot for them, probably on my front wall. When I'm done, there will be 20 of these panels spread out on the 4 walls...with 8 on the back wall, 4 on each of the side walls, and 4 on the front wall.
E
ecc83
Well-known member
I am in the same position with regard to 'junk' except I have not managed to summon up the 'steel' you are showing Miroslav. I have a bedroom and a loft nearly full of "things I will get around to doing something with one day". This is mainly electronic kit, amp parts and in my head I 'know' somebody has need of it and similar ideas to myself. I too would gladly give it away to a worthy party.
But, (sigh) I know in my heart that it must be done and go to landfill.
Cracking job, enjoy.
Dave.
But, (sigh) I know in my heart that it must be done and go to landfill.
Cracking job, enjoy.
Dave.
rob aylestone
Moderator
Those panels look interesting. never seen them in any kind here in the UK - I guess because wooden buildings are very rare. May I ask the rough cost? As a guide, 8x4 18mm ply (see how daft our measurements are here. Ply and MDF is 8x4 sheet size but sold in 9,12 and 18mm thickness but plasterboard is 1.2m x 2.4m so joints do not align!!) so that ply sheet costs just over $35.
One thing I always meant to do in every build I have done but never done it, is draw a plan of where the vertical studs are. I've often got a drawing showing the placement, but this is always related to the starting one. By the time you have the sheet material in layers you lose the datum for measurement, as the corners are offset from the underlying timberwork. I spent ages yesterday trying to mount something heavy on a wall and kept finding plaster - I know the stud is there but damned if I can find it. It would be as simple as a few lines on the inside so you could remeasure once the walls are up! Every time, I mean to do this, but always forget,
One thing I always meant to do in every build I have done but never done it, is draw a plan of where the vertical studs are. I've often got a drawing showing the placement, but this is always related to the starting one. By the time you have the sheet material in layers you lose the datum for measurement, as the corners are offset from the underlying timberwork. I spent ages yesterday trying to mount something heavy on a wall and kept finding plaster - I know the stud is there but damned if I can find it. It would be as simple as a few lines on the inside so you could remeasure once the walls are up! Every time, I mean to do this, but always forget,
E
ecc83
Well-known member
Ha! I have given up trying to mount stuff onto my old bungalow walls. The bricks are very hard and if you do get a hole drilled it has wandered out of place but most of the time I hit plaster which is not strong.
My solution therefore was to use a sheet of 19mm MDF and stick the fekker up with No Nails having previously put at least 4 holes in it. I then drill and bash a plastic plug through and pull the board tight to the wall before the glue has set. Even if the screws don't all hit brick they can still take large loads parallel to the wall.
I can then get the fixings perfectly aligned for my Tannoy monitors!
Of course, if/when the lot is taken down most of the plaster will come with it but that is the kid's problem!
Dave.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
These are about 5/8" thick, and they cost about $35 per 4' x 8' sheet...regardless of 4" OC or 8" OC sections.
AFA the studs location...I went around with a marker and noted the center of each stud on my sub-floor. Now that the drywall is all in, I'm going to mark the same studio locations on the bottom edge of the drywall (since the sub-floor will be covered soon). I also have tons of pictures that I could use as a guide if needed, but with the new construction, and having been present as it all went up...I know that all the studs and rafters are 16" OC (and they line up to each other), and they were all laid out pretty accurately, with the exception being around the window frames where there are triple studs, so you can't miss.
They do make stud finders (never used one).
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to...or that he's looking to do...?
It's my documentation thread...I'm just posting info as it comes along, and when feel it's necessary. I wasn't looking to create some build guideline documentation or anything formal. It's just my way of following my build.
Kinda like vacation photos...very informal documentation.
Might as well add some update...
DAY 115
My bathroom shower/wall tile was finished today with grouting. Tomorrow they start the floor tile for the foyer/hallway/bathroom. Hope to see that finished in the next few days...not sure if they will do any work over the weekend.
My electrician is supposed to show up tomorrow or Saturday to finish up the last of the wiring.
In the mean time, I've been working on the wood wall treatment stuff. Ended up being short one piece of siding, so I got that last night and finally completed all the cuts for each of the panels. They will be running from floor to ceiling...so each section of panel is made from two of the cut 8' pieces, with the top portion (whatever size was needed to reach the ceiling) on most of the pieces needing an angled cut where it meets the slope of the ceiling. I only have two sections where they hit the flat, vaulted part of the ceiling...they top out at just over 12'...so 8' + 4' pieces.
Tonight I'm going to give the face of the panels a quick, rough sanding...since this siding has a very rough, porous front surface. I don't want to sand it smooth...rather just to knock of some of the loose particles. Then I'm going to apply some stain to them (I went with a Golden Oak) to give them a nice look...and then I will screw them in their designated location, also adding a liberal amount of elastomeric caulk, which will help deaden the panels and prevent any vibration.
Finally I will add trim along the edges...maybe painted in some contrasting color, like the rest of my trim...or maybe I stain them the same as the panels.
When they are completely installed, there will be empty wall between the panels, which will then used to hang broadband traps...probably two 2' x 4' panels set vertically in each of the empty wall slots, on the back 10' wall and the gable walls...and one panel each on the 8', front wall.
I will also be hanging traps on the ceiling...but right now I'm not thinking about where they will go or how many...though I'm expecting to end up with at least (30) 2' x 4' broadband traps in the room...plus some deep bass traps, two in each back corner, one in each front corner...and then finally some diffusion panels in a few key spots.
I'm trying to consider everything that may yet be needed for the walls/ceiling...so planning out where to put these wood siding panels was an important first step...that way the broadband & bass traps will have places where they will go, without having stuff on top of each other. I want all the wall treatment to not just have some functional purpose...but to look like it was all part of the room design.
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