Pixies "Debaser" feat. Paulman77 on vocals.

[Bubba po]

Right, so first up I admit straight off the bat that this is an impossible song to cover successfully, but a random chat between Paulman and myself ended up with us (misguidedly?) deciding to give it a go anyway.

Enough excuses, here it is.

 

[JDOD]

Bass tone in the intro is great as are all the tones throughout.

Has your mrs got exceptionally big lungs? that's not a euphemism - its just a long "ahhh"
Whole thing sounds great, not judging it against the original but one thing that stands out after listening to it again is that some of the shouts appear to jump out a little too much (even though I know its supposed to be shouty) is this something you could tame with a little more compression.

 

[Bubba po]

Bass tone in the intro is great as are all the tones throughout.

Has your mrs got exceptionally big lungs? that's not a euphemism - its just a long "ahhh"
Whole thing sounds great, not judging it against the original but one thing that stands out after listening to it again is that some of the shouts appear to jump out a little too much (even though I know its supposed to be shouty) is this something you could tame with a little more compression.

Thanks, JDOD.

Yes, my missis has great capacity. We first met when I was holidaying in Fiji. She was the best pearl diver in the village.

It's compressed like buggery already - I'll probably need to pull the shouts down individually.

 

[JDOD]

Thanks, JDOD.

Yes, my missis has great capacity. We first met when I was holidaying in Fiji. She was the best pearl diver in the village.

It's compressed like buggery already - I'll probably need to pull the shouts down individually.

haha, alright, Kino.

Ah, well you'll have to leave it as it is then. Its not bad though - the original is just as dynamic so is probably also really compressed.

 

[Greg_L]

You really captured the style and vibe of the original, which is good for me because I love the Pixies and hearing bad covers of bands and songs I like fucking sucks.

So the mix needs a little work to me. The snare is kind of boxy. Great drumming by whoever did it, but get that snare a little flatter. The guitars are great, sound great, but if I'm comparing them to the original they need to be a little dirtier and less bright. A little more room on the guitars. The vocals must be a fucking bitch for this song, and it sounds that way. They sound like this key is like one step above the range of whoever sang it. I know the vocals are shouty and strained by design, but I can't help comparing it to the original and Mr Black set the bar for you to reach. The entire mix needs something holding it together a little better. EQ, compression, reverb, whatever it takes. I like clarity and isolation, but again, if I'm comparing it to the original, they sound like a band in a room. This doesn't.

Getting my ass back out of here,
Greg

 

[Nola]

It's good. The vocalist sounds behind the instruments at times (his volume is dipping up and down a bit, like he's backing off the mic or compression/automation is doing too much).

 

[Armistice]

Hey bubba - nice work on the backing - pretty much an impossible song to sing - such an "iconic" lead vocal, so props to paulman for even trying - the lead vocal is sounding just a touch distant to me. All of the rest of it sounds pretty good to my ears - Frank drumming up a storm as always - bass sounds nice and healthy and present - perhaps I might dry up the rhythm guitar a touch, but all the guitars are well played and mesh together sonically like the original - and Manda also sounding in fine form - damn that's a long note!

Good work. What's next?

 

[Nola]

Bubba, are you taking requests? I'd like to hear Gigantic!

 

[rayc]

It's good but the vox are a little bit more strained than the original which is OK really.

 

[Bubba po]

You really captured the style and vibe of the original, which is good for me because I love the Pixies and hearing bad covers of bands and songs I like fucking sucks.

So the mix needs a little work to me. The snare is kind of boxy. Great drumming by whoever did it, but get that snare a little flatter. The guitars are great, sound great, but if I'm comparing them to the original they need to be a little dirtier and less bright. A little more room on the guitars. The vocals must be a fucking bitch for this song, and it sounds that way. They sound like this key is like one step above the range of whoever sang it. I know the vocals are shouty and strained by design, but I can't help comparing it to the original and Mr Black set the bar for you to reach. The entire mix needs something holding it together a little better. EQ, compression, reverb, whatever it takes. I like clarity and isolation, but again, if I'm comparing it to the original, they sound like a band in a room. This doesn't.

Getting my ass back out of here,
Greg

Interesting, thanks for the comments, Greg. On point, as always.

I admit, I hadn't heard the snare as boxy(ish) until you mentioned it, but upon investigation I found the reason. This is only the second track I've done where I've tried a bottom snare mic and I'd forgotten to invert the phase. When I clicked that button, the "body" came back. Good spot and no excuses there, I should have heard it myself.

You're probably right about the guitars, too - I'm always mindful of putting too much gain on my guitars and I've probably erred on the clean side.

The choice to do this was Paulman's, and on the whole I think he made a pretty good attempt at the thing, with the reservations you mention. Listening to it a couple of times this morning, if this was some covers band in a pub, I would have to give him props for the performance - he'd have got a hearty round of applause from me, but recording is a critical environment that shows up any flaws such as they are.

It was an interesting and enjoyable project, and not entirely a failure, IMO.

 

[Bubba po]

Hey bubba - nice work on the backing - pretty much an impossible song to sing - such an "iconic" lead vocal, so props to paulman for even trying - the lead vocal is sounding just a touch distant to me. All of the rest of it sounds pretty good to my ears - Frank drumming up a storm as always - bass sounds nice and healthy and present - perhaps I might dry up the rhythm guitar a touch, but all the guitars are well played and mesh together sonically like the original - and Manda also sounding in fine form - damn that's a long note!

Good work. What's next?

LOL, Thanks, Armistice.

Regarding the bass tone, when I was mixing it I found that the only bass tone that really worked was the one they'd used on the record. More grit and it disappeared or sounded wrong on the intro; more gain and it disappeared rhythmically. The guy who mixed this originally did a perfect job with the bass that I couldn't improve upon.

Regarding "what's next", I have no idea. I'm filled with dread about the future because Frank is leaving home to go to college in two weeks' time. This is why I've fired out a load of covers recently, to get them off my chest before I have to revert to midi drums or something.

 

[Bubba po]

Bubba, are you taking requests? I'd like to hear Gigantic!

Ha ha! I love Gigantic, I'll put it to Frank. I'm sure Manda would love to do it too, an old band we were in together used to cover it and she sang it great. I can't do Frank Black's falsetto these days, I might have to call in a deputy.

 

[Greg_L]

It was an interesting and enjoyable project, and not entirely a failure, IMO.

Absolutely. Yall did a good job overall and a good song choice.

 

[antichef]

I love it - I wish I could cover a song like this that well. The performances are all great.

The lead vocal seems a little lost/buried in the mix - maybe that's intentional. I might try putting a little (more?) distortion on it, and/or bringing it up slightly. Maybe do some sidechain compression on some of the other instruments in the same space - which I guess would be the guitars, which actually doesn't sound like a great idea, but I might try it.

 

[Nola]

Ha ha! I love Gigantic, I'll put it to Frank. I'm sure Manda would love to do it too, an old band we were in together used to cover it and she sang it great.

Nice! I really like how the Deal sisters do it acoustically. I think it suits a female singer given the lyrics...

 

[paulman77]

Hmm. I'm wondering if maybe I should have used the 57 instead of the Avantone. That way I could have gotten closer to the mic and gotten less room sound (my current situation is far from ideal for recording vocals). I found in my experimentation with the vocal (I had to play with it while Bubba was mixing it) the right distortion sound helps mask the strain in my voice. I tried the stock Logic clipping plugin, and that sounded pretty good (though it sounded like a different Pixies song, like Something Against You but less extreme). I also tried tape saturation in the Studer plugin, which sounds more natural though it covers up less. Bubba, I guess you opted for lower volume to mask it. I think I put a limiter on my test mix of the vocal as well. Just evened the whole damn thing out and put it at the volume I wanted it. Not much need for dynamics with this. The real takeaway here is that I need to stick to screaming in short bursts, not whole freaking songs. That was like an athletic event. Frank Black has a very particular set of skills that are hard to match. That dude is definitely unique, in the best way. It was fun though, and not just because of the whiskey. Great job by all on the recording, Bubba. David Lovering is a metronomic beast on the drums, and Frank did a phenomenal job of covering him.

 

[Robus]

Good job, all. I had to listen again to the Pixies studio version to compare. Pretty faithful to the original. Overall your mix is drier and the guitars seem a little more prominent. But whatever, it's a cover not a recreation. Drums, bass, guitars are all solid. Good work on the vocal Paulman. It sounds like you're singing "chain"--okay, that a super nitpick.

 

[Bubba po]

Hmm. I'm wondering if maybe I should have used the 57 instead of the Avantone. That way I could have gotten closer to the mic and gotten less room sound (my current situation is far from ideal for recording vocals). I found in my experimentation with the vocal (I had to play with it while Bubba was mixing it) the right distortion sound helps mask the strain in my voice. I tried the stock Logic clipping plugin, and that sounded pretty good (though it sounded like a different Pixies song, like Something Against You but less extreme). I also tried tape saturation in the Studer plugin, which sounds more natural though it covers up less. Bubba, I guess you opted for lower volume to mask it. I think I put a limiter on my test mix of the vocal as well. Just evened the whole damn thing out and put it at the volume I wanted it. Not much need for dynamics with this. The real takeaway here is that I need to stick to screaming in short bursts, not whole freaking songs. That was like an athletic event. Frank Black has a very particular set of skills that are hard to match. That dude is definitely unique, in the best way. It was fun though, and not just because of the whiskey. Great job by all on the recording, Bubba. David Lovering is a metronomic beast on the drums, and Frank did a phenomenal job of covering him.

Cheers, Paulman.

Reading all this, it seems like you wanted to pre-empt my mixing decisions. All that did was narrow down my choices or leave me with nowhere to go when the high end was missing. I have access to compressors, EQ, distortion plugins and everything else. Supplying me with anything other than a clean vocal, perhaps tracked through some kind of levelling plugin to tame the dynamic range, is counter-productive.

 

[paulman77]

Cheers, Paulman.

Reading all this, it seems like you wanted to pre-empt my mixing decisions. All that did was narrow down my choices or leave me with nowhere to go when the high end was missing. I have access to compressors, EQ, distortion plugins and everything else. Supplying me with anything other than a clean vocal, perhaps tracked through some kind of levelling plugin to tame the dynamic range, is counter-productive.

No, I'm just extra sensitive as to how to cover up the flaws in my screaming. What I sent you was dry. I only mixed it experimentally to see if I thought the performance could work (hard to tell on a dry vocal), but I sent it to you dry. Actually, the first time there was a compressor while tracking, but I took that off the second time so as to make sure you had the most basic track I could possibly give you. I think I made a bad decision in using the Avantone for this, the more I think about it. Oh well. No real loss, since the vocal wasn't that great to begin with. Unfortunately I don't own a "sound like Frank Black" mic.

 

[Nola]

No, I'm just extra sensitive as to how to cover up the flaws in my screaming. What I sent you was dry. I only mixed it experimentally to see if I thought the performance could work (hard to tell on a dry vocal), but I sent it to you dry. Actually, the first time there was a compressor while tracking, but I took that off the second time so as to make sure you had the most basic track I could possibly give you. I think I made a bad decision in using the Avantone for this, the more I think about it. Oh well. No real loss, since the vocal wasn't that great to begin with. Unfortunately I don't own a "sound like Frank Black" mic.

I really don't hear any problem with the screaming.

I had my gf, who is a trained singer, listen to it, and she said it's a great vocal.

I find that dynamic mics are great for vocals, btw. Especially for a vocal like this where you don't want any sibilance or harshness but do want power. I like condensers on female vocals and softer/quiet vocals. For female vocals ribbons also work really well.

The only thing I noticed "off" is your guy's version feels a hair slower.