The New Tone Thread

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Tadpui said:
So here's the worst thing that you're going to hear today. I wondered what would happen if I turned all of the EQ knobs all the way up on the JCM800 on the hi-sensitivity input. Master is at 5, preamp is at 8. Plugged my (completely un-tuned) Les Paul, and went all improv with some sort of terrible metal riff off the top of my head. I don't usually play this kind of thing, it just happened. And since I had no idea what key or mode I was in, things just kind of...um...happened. I tried SO HARD to nail that low G pinch harmonic several times but I'm too out of practice to get it right.

The Eye Of Satan's Butthole

Honestly, I don't hate the tone. But it sounds roomy to me...weird with only a close mic. And after punishing my ears with that volume, I can't tell if it came out fizzy or not.
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Ha, good title. :D

I like it. No fizz to me. It has a real vintage metal sound to it. I think it'd be great in a mix without any boost at all. But if you wanted to boost it cleanly with no color, look no further than your MXR EQ pedal. That thing is a perfect clean boost...or you can dial in or out any extra stuff.

minerman said:
Alright, here's something I've been working on today, you've heard this before, but I changed the guitars, the clean guitars just sounded really weak to me when the other guitars come in/out, so I re-tracked 'em with the LP, using quite a bit more gain than before. I like it a lot better, but I'm curious to know what you guys think about this overall, but especially the guitar tones...The wah pedal I got from Bill is on here too...

I can't remember the exact settings, but most of 'em were on the blue channel, 15w mode, using the G12-65 Heritage through the i5, at as high a volume as I could get by with, probably around 1 1/2 or so... I really like that mic, to me, it's like the '57, but with a little better high end response similar to the 609 I have....Great mic IMO...


WR 7-18-2016

Lemme know what you guys think about this....
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I like it. It's a little modern high-gain for that song, but that's mainly because I can't help comparing it to the original. Thoe tones seem to work though. Nothing rally weird to me. The 65s work way better IMO with that amp at low volume than the EVH Greenbacks do.
 
Greg_L said:
That's not too bad to me. I think the crunchy rhythm is okay, the lead line is definitely pretty sterile. What amp is that?
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That's the mid 90s Bandit. Not all that loud either, you wouldn't be able to chat over it but it's not scaring children. Think maybe a touch more gain and maybe a bit more bottom.
 
Here it is with a little more bass and a little more gain. I've dialled the gain back on the crunch bit using the vol knob on the guit.

View attachment SP2.mp3

I think its an improvement but still not quite what I'm after - its usable though.
 
Greg_L said:
I like it. It's a little modern high-gain for that song, but that's mainly because I can't help comparing it to the original. Those tones seem to work though. Nothing really weird to me. The 65s work way better IMO with that amp at low volume than the EVH Greenbacks do.
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Thanks man, I'm trying to keep it kinda like the original, but with my own spin on it...I'm gonna try the other 3 speakers in the bastard cab at the same volume to see how they do...

I'm curious about that, but especially the greenback that's in there... I know it's broken in, & I'm wondering is that has anything to do with the fizz/shitty sound, or if the EVH Greenbacks just need to be pushed to smooth 'em out... From what I can find, the Heritage Greenbacks are almost the same as the EVH versions, so the Chinese version I have shouldn't be too far off...
 
minerman said:
Thanks man, I'm trying to keep it kinda like the original, but with my own spin on it...I'm gonna try the other 3 speakers in the bastard cab at the same volume to see how they do...

I'm curious about that, but especially the greenback that's in there... I know it's broken in, & I'm wondering is that has anything to do with the fizz/shitty sound, or if the EVH Greenbacks just need to be pushed to smooth 'em out... From what I can find, the Heritage Greenbacks are almost the same as the EVH versions, so the Chinese version I have shouldn't be too far off...
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I suspect, this is just my own guess, that maybe if you're not gonna push a speaker hard with power and volume then a stiffer speaker might be better. The beauty of a Greenback is that they break up fast and get warm and crunchy fat but maintain good clarity. That's great and all when you can push them, but what if you cant? I know with my own Greenbacks, they don't sound great at low volume. So maybe the soft easy breakup of a Greenback isn't all that great when you can't get it to it's sweet spot. And maybe the higher wattage, stiffer speakers are better for lower volume because they resist the urge to impart their own color onto the sound if you can't push them hard. Maybe that's why your lower vol clips with anything but the Greenbacks tend to sound less harsh and/or fizzy. I'm not saying this as fact or anything, but maybe that's what's happening.
 
JDOD said:
Here it is with a little more bass and a little more gain. I've dialled the gain back on the crunch bit using the vol knob on the guit.

View attachment 97511

I think its an improvement but still not quite what I'm after - its usable though.
Click to expand...

I think it's okay. For me, the reggae part totally does not work with that tone, but the rest is okay. It's a little boomy. I think the gain increase is good, the bass increase maybe not so much.
 
Greg_L said:
I think it's okay. For me, the reggae part totally does not work with that tone, but the rest is okay. It's a little boomy. I think the gain increase is good, the bass increase maybe not so much.
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Cheers, I'll dial it in more as I write more of the song. Gotta come up with a better lead lick too, that one is fucking shite!

Oddly the reggae bit was written first. Dunno if this had ever happened with you, but I found myself signing something to myself in the car on the way home, so I found the chords on the guitar when I got in and started from there. I knew I wanted it to mainly be a punk song though.
 
Greg_L said:
I suspect, this is just my own guess, that maybe if you're not gonna push a speaker hard with power and volume then a stiffer speaker might be better. The beauty of a Greenback is that they break up fast and get warm and crunchy fat but maintain good clarity. That's great and all when you can push them, but what if you cant? I know with my own Greenbacks, they don't sound great at low volume. So maybe the soft easy breakup of a Greenback isn't all that great when you can't get it to it's sweet spot. And maybe the higher wattage, stiffer speakers are better for lower volume because they resist the urge to impart their own color onto the sound if you can't push them hard. Maybe that's why your lower vol clips with anything but the Greenbacks tend to sound less harsh and/or fizzy. I'm not saying this as fact or anything, but maybe that's what's happening.
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I think you may be onto something here man, some of my other clips I've posted at about the same volume sounded pretty good, some sounded shitty. I'm gonna re-amp a few tracks with the same amp settings, just using different speakers for comparison, & I'll post the results to see what the verdict is on 'em...Of course I won't be able to get the exact same mic position, but I can probably get close enough....



JDOD: The last clip sounds pretty good until it goes into the reggae part IMO, might be me but the low-mids are a little woofy
 
Yeah, would be easy back at home with some valves. Two separate tracks is easy... but boring!
 
Ok here's a little shoot-out between the speakers in my bastard cab...All amp settings are exactly the same, & I tried to get the best possible mic position on all of 'em, but of course, the position probably could've been better, but they are exactly the same for each different speaker...

I didn't re-amp the semi-clean guitars, I think those are keepers myself...I'm pretty curious to what you guys think about the other guitar tracks in this song though....

LP > interface > re-amp box > EVH LBX > Marshall 4x12 > i5


15w mode
Blue Channel
Resonance:..........2
Gain:..................8
Bass:..................8
Middle:................3
Treble:................4
Volume:..............1
Presence:............5

On the solo'd clips, there are 4 guitars, panned 80L/80R, & are at the same level in the mix...2 of 'em have a flanger, & all have reverb on 'em.....


'65 solo'd

V30 solo'd

G12H solo'd

Greenback solo'd

'65 mix

V30 mix

G12H mix

Greenback mix


Lemme know what you guys think...
 
Greg_L said:
Ha, good title. :D

I like it. No fizz to me. It has a real vintage metal sound to it. I think it'd be great in a mix without any boost at all. But if you wanted to boost it cleanly with no color, look no further than your MXR EQ pedal. That thing is a perfect clean boost...or you can dial in or out any extra stuff.
Click to expand...

Hahaha, I thought that you'd enjoy the title at least :D I do really like that tone for my heavier moods, but I really do hear some sort of hi-frequency noise. I've heard it in your tones as well. Maybe it's just something that my monitors are sensitive to. Nobody here seems to be worried about it, so I won't be either. It's higher frequency than fizz, like it's just enormous amounts of very high frequency energy bouncing around the room. I doubt that it would be a problem in a mix, where drum overheads will surely drown it out. It's just something that I keep hearing with these raging Marshall amps.

Thanks again for convincing me to explore the hi-sensitivity input on this amp. It's changed everything about how I view this beast.
 
JDOD said:
Here it is with a little more bass and a little more gain. I've dialled the gain back on the crunch bit using the vol knob on the guit.

View attachment 97511

I think its an improvement but still not quite what I'm after - its usable though.
Click to expand...

I like the rhythm guitar tone quite a bit. The lead sounds like it wants to breathe a little more, like maybe more volume or a little less gain. I have to agree with Greg on the part playing on the upbeats, it sounds too saturated for that kind of thing. I'd be curious to hear it with a cleaner tone. And one of those chords is dissonant with what the other guitar is doing. Something about when the right-hand guitar changes chords and the left-hand guitar stays on the wrong chord for just a beat or so.

I like the song, definitely a cool shift to a half-time feel with the slow ska kind of thing. An idea worth developing.
 
minerman said:
Ok here's a little shoot-out between the speakers in my bastard cab...All amp settings are exactly the same, & I tried to get the best possible mic position on all of 'em, but of course, the position probably could've been better, but they are exactly the same for each different speaker...

I didn't re-amp the semi-clean guitars, I think those are keepers myself...I'm pretty curious to what you guys think about the other guitar tracks in this song though....

LP > interface > re-amp box > EVH LBX > Marshall 4x12 > i5


15w mode
Blue Channel
Resonance:..........2
Gain:..................8
Bass:..................8
Middle:................3
Treble:................4
Volume:..............1
Presence:............5

On the solo'd clips, there are 4 guitars, panned 80L/80R, & are at the same level in the mix...2 of 'em have a flanger, & all have reverb on 'em.....


'65 solo'd

V30 solo'd

G12H solo'd

Greenback solo'd

'65 mix

V30 mix

G12H mix

Greenback mix


Lemme know what you guys think...
Click to expand...

It's a little hard to tell with the wah or flanger going, since it basically simulates phasing problems and comb filtering. It adds a hollow quality to the mixes.

This is a really cool test though, I'm amazed at how different the speakers each sound. I can't really say that any is particularly better than the others, they're just different. I wouldn't be unhappy with any of them. If I had to choose with this particular tone, I'd go with the V30 or the G12H. It's hard to choose though, they each have their own EQ curve.

The tone behind this is really good, solid hard rock kind of tone.
 
Tadpui said:
I like the rhythm guitar tone quite a bit. The lead sounds like it wants to breathe a little more, like maybe more volume or a little less gain. I have to agree with Greg on the part playing on the upbeats, it sounds too saturated for that kind of thing. I'd be curious to hear it with a cleaner tone. And one of those chords is dissonant with what the other guitar is doing. Something about when the right-hand guitar changes chords and the left-hand guitar stays on the wrong chord for just a beat or so.

I like the song, definitely a cool shift to a half-time feel with the slow ska kind of thing. An idea worth developing.
Click to expand...

I know the bit you mean tad. That was one of them accidents that I liked the sound of. On of the guitars stays on the C Major for a beat longer than the other one that has already gone to B Minor. I probably over used it though
 
minerman said:
Ok here's a little shoot-out between the speakers in my bastard cab...All amp settings are exactly the same, & I tried to get the best possible mic position on all of 'em, but of course, the position probably could've been better, but they are exactly the same for each different speaker...

I didn't re-amp the semi-clean guitars, I think those are keepers myself...I'm pretty curious to what you guys think about the other guitar tracks in this song though....

LP > interface > re-amp box > EVH LBX > Marshall 4x12 > i5


15w mode
Blue Channel
Resonance:..........2
Gain:..................8
Bass:..................8
Middle:................3
Treble:................4
Volume:..............1
Presence:............5

On the solo'd clips, there are 4 guitars, panned 80L/80R, & are at the same level in the mix...2 of 'em have a flanger, & all have reverb on 'em.....


'65 solo'd

V30 solo'd

G12H solo'd

Greenback solo'd

'65 mix

V30 mix

G12H mix

Greenback mix


Lemme know what you guys think...
Click to expand...

I'm 100% with Tad on this one. They all sound good, but for me the V30 and G12H are the best....and of those two I think I like the G12H better.
 
V30 sounds ace! I'd be well happy with that as a heavy tone!

There's no obvious mud, boominess, minging bits or fizz! Stick that in a mix!
 
Thanks guys, this gives me hope, as I'd almost given up on getting a decent tone at low volume with the EVH amp...I hear the fizz on the "old" Greenback even more this morning, so if I'm gonna use those speakers, I'm gonna have to get fairly loud in order to do so. The clips I did yesterday weren't whisper quiet, but they were way quieter than what I'd usually consider loud...Thanks again guys!!!
 
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