The New Tone Thread

[jonny deep]

Yes that's one. Minerman uses that speaker and gets great sounds with it. Don't worry about the "15 ohm" rating. It's 16-ish enough, and that fluctuates anyway as you pump signal through it.

If you can find vintage 65s for the right price, get one. But those reissues will be great.

I think the Creambacks are great, but if you want variety and don't care about the cab sound on the whole, I'd say pair it with a Vintage 30. A G12-65 and Vintage 30 are quite different, two very distinct sounds, same power handling, and they both go very well with a 2203.

I already have a V30, so I can get away with one new speaker in that case. I could always add a Creamback if I'm unhappy with that setup, but I'll probably never move the mic!

That would make a 125W cab - should still be enough, I guess.

 

[Greg_L]

I already have a V30, so I can get away with one new speaker in that case. I could always add a Creamback if I'm unhappy with that setup, but I'll probably never move the mic!

That would make a 125W cab - should still be enough, I guess.

The "H" Creamback is going to be similar to your G12H30, but with higher power handling. If you like that speaker and sound, then the H Creamback would probably be good for you.

The G12-65 is a little "softer", more like a Greenback with smoother mids and highs. I think the 65 pairs well with a JCM 800 because they're very aggressive, bright amps and the 65 kind of balances it out.

The Vintage 30 is very midrangey, and it can accentuate the punch of the JCM 800 if you want that kind of sound. The Vintage 30, G12H30, and the "H" Creamback will all kind of be in the same tone ballpark.

 

[jonny deep]

The "H" Creamback is going to be similar to your G12H30, but with higher power handling. If you like that speaker and sound, then the H Creamback would probably be good for you.

That's why I was interested in the H Creamback - I like the recorded sound I get from the G12H30 over the Greenback in my cab.

The G12-65 is a little "softer", more like a Greenback with smoother mids and highs. I think the 65 pairs well with a JCM 800 because they're very aggressive, bright amps and the 65 kind of balances it out.

The Vintage 30 is very midrangey, and it can accentuate the punch of the JCM 800 if you want that kind of sound. The Vintage 30, G12H30, and the "H" Creamback will all kind of be in the same tone ballpark.

Thanks for all the advice - I'll stick the V30 in with a G12 65, which should give me a sound like the G12H30 from the V30, then, plus the G12-65 sound. Does the V30 have an 'H' magnet, then?

Of course, I haven't got the amp yet, or even a response from the seller!!!

 

[Greg_L]

Yeah the V30 is an H magnet, the 65 is an M.

If you like the G12H30, I think you'll probably like the Vintage 30. They're not identical, but they're pretty close. And you already have one, so win!

 

[ecc83]

I would say 125W worth of Celestions on a 100W nominal amp was marginal but unless you are going to put plugs in and head down full gain shit for hours. probably ok.
A lot depends upon the amp. Some 100watters limit at 120 or so, others can deliver 200watts! Which that Peavey is I cannot say. Going to be crazy loud anyway!

Dave.

 

[jonny deep]

I would say 125W worth of Celestions on a 100W nominal amp was marginal but unless you are going to put plugs in and head down full gain shit for hours. probably ok.
A lot depends upon the amp. Some 100watters limit at 120 or so, others can deliver 200watts! Which that Peavey is I cannot say. Going to be crazy loud anyway!

Dave.

We're talking about a 100W Marshall JCM800 2203x reissue. Someone else was talking about a Peavey earlier.

My understanding is that a 100W amp can put out up to 200W when cranked and fully distorting, but I doubt I'll ever have it running at full volume and with the gain at full.

 

[Greg_L]

We're talking about a 100W Marshall JCM800 2203x reissue. Someone else was talking about a Peavey earlier.

My understanding is that a 100W amp can put out up to 200W when cranked and fully distorting, but I doubt I'll ever have it running at full volume and with the gain at full.

It depends. I don't know the technicals of it, but I've read some amps are rated for clean output, and the actual overdriven output can be quite a bit higher. Double? I don't know, I've never heard of one doing double. I have heard of wide open Super Leads measuring around 150-170 watts. I bet the JCM 800 can do something similar if it's true. It's loudness potential is insane. But that is fully cranked all knobs on 10. As bad ass as JCM 800s are, no one actually uses them that way. They're not like Super Leads in that regard. JCM 800s are best up loud, but they don't have to be cranked to 10. Put the master on 5 or 6 and it's plenty loud enough to get the speakers cooking and the cab thumping. Mine limits out around 7-8 and that's way way way too loud to gig with a local bars and clubs.

 

[minerman]

Jonny: I hope you get that amp dude, and either the G12-65 re-issue (I have one of 'em, & love it) or the V30 would sound good with that amp....What kind of cab do you have dude, a 2x12??? Sorry, I can't remember what day it is sometimes...

 

[Bubba po]

Bloody hell, there's a guy who lives about 30 miles away from me who's selling a Marshall JVM 410c. He's only asking £450 for it - that's $690! I already have a JCM 2000 TSL, otherwise I'd be driving there right now!

I'm still sorely tempted!

 

[jonny deep]

Jonny: I hope you get that amp dude, and either the G12-65 re-issue (I have one of 'em, & love it) or the V30 would sound good with that amp....What kind of cab do you have dude, a 2x12??? Sorry, I can't remember what day it is sometimes...

Yeah, I hope so too - haven't heard back yet, most likely it's gone or s/he's annoyed at me asking for money off without the flight case.

I have a custom 2x12 that currently has a greenback and a G12H30 in it - that lives in the iso box. I also have the V30 in an Egnater Tweaker 1x12 (which originally had the G12H30 in it) - that lives in my studio/office room.

Bubba - why aren't you already in the car?!

 

[Bubba po]

Bubba - why aren't you already in the car?!

I can't justify it, unfortunately! But the JVM's the king of modern Marshalls. It's a £1500 amp for a third of the price!

 

[TripleM]

And, it's got a half-power switch that takes it down to 50w too....

You're talking about the Pentode/Triode switch right? Can that be used to get different tones? Can you get tones in Triode that you can't get in Pentode and vice versa? Or does it just reduce power/volume with the same tone?

 

[minerman]

You're talking about the Pentode/Triode switch right? Can that be used to get different tones? Can you get tones in Triode that you can't get in Pentode and vice versa? Or does it just reduce power/volume with the same tone?

Well, technically it just cuts the power in half (pentode/triode), but in 50w mode, the tone is a little smoother & less agressive to my ears....Might just be the loss of headroom, I dunno exactly, but it is a little different feeling & sounding in 50w mode.....

 

[jonny deep]

Switching to triode mode (7.5W) on my Vox definitely changes the tone. It's more than just a cut in volume. Obviously, the lower headroom means it's more distorted at the same gain setting, but even compensating for that, it's a different tone.

 

[Greg_L]

Okay gentlemenfuckers, I'll continue the tour of the JVM now.

Up next we have the OD1 channel. This is where the gain starts getting really silly. The only real problem with this channel IMO is that the jump in gain from Green to Orange is quite drastic compared to the other channels, which have a more subtle jump. The giant jump in gain usually requires a slight adjustment to the EQs to compensate, which isn't really as necessary on the Clean and Crunch channels. This is why many JVM4 users mod their OD2 to be identical to OD1. They'll set OD1 for their overdriven rhythm playing, and set the modded OD2 for juiced up leads with the same basic voicing.

For me, I never go past OD1 Green. This channel/mode has the wound up JCM 800 type sound, which IMO is pretty much the most glorious sound there is for most of what I play. It's a little more modern/grainy than a real 800, but it's pretty damn close. Orange and Red modes on this channel are just way too much gain for me, although OD1 Orange with the gain very very low sounds pretty cool. I pretty much spend all of my time with the JVM in OD1 Green mode or somewhere in the Crunch channel.

So anyway, here's JVM OD1.

Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge
Marshall JVM410 - OD1 Channel
Resonance & Presence - 0
Bass - 4
Mid - 6
Treb - 5
Gain - 4
Channel and Master vol - 5
Marshall 1960B - Vintage 30 - Audix i5 on axis, on grill, halfway to edge
No EQ

JVM OD1 Green
JVM OD1 Orange
JVM OD1 Red

If I was seriously trying to get the best out of Orange and Red modes, I'd set the amp differently. This is just to show the basic sound and the jump in gain from mode to mode.

 

[jonny deep]

Good clips, thanks Greg. The green sounds the best to me - as you say, pretty similar to the JCM800 sound. What's the riff?

 

[Greg_L]

Good clips, thanks Greg. The green sounds the best to me - as you say, pretty similar to the JCM800 sound. What's the riff?

Thanks dude. That's a little piece of a song I wrote a long time ago. I figure it's "riffy" enough to use for a clip demo with some gain.

I could live with the Orange mode with different settings, but I have absolutely no use for Red.


I'll do OD2 tomorrow.

 

[Bubba po]

Okay gentlemenfuckers, I'll continue the tour of the JVM now.

Up next we have the OD1 channel. This is where the gain starts getting really silly. The only real problem with this channel IMO is that the jump in gain from Green to Orange is quite drastic compared to the other channels, which have a more subtle jump. The giant jump in gain usually requires a slight adjustment to the EQs to compensate, which isn't really as necessary on the Clean and Crunch channels. This is why many JVM4 users mod their OD2 to be identical to OD1. They'll set OD1 for their overdriven rhythm playing, and set the modded OD2 for juiced up leads with the same basic voicing.

For me, I never go past OD1 Green. This channel/mode has the wound up JCM 800 type sound, which IMO is pretty much the most glorious sound there is for most of what I play. It's a little more modern/grainy than a real 800, but it's pretty damn close. Orange and Red modes on this channel are just way too much gain for me, although OD1 Orange with the gain very very low sounds pretty cool. I pretty much spend all of my time with the JVM in OD1 Green mode or somewhere in the Crunch channel.

So anyway, here's JVM OD1.

Les Paul Traditional - Burstbucker 3 bridge
Marshall JVM410 - OD1 Channel
Resonance & Presence - 0
Bass - 4
Mid - 6
Treb - 5
Gain - 4
Channel and Master vol - 5
Marshall 1960B - Vintage 30 - Audix i5 on axis, on grill, halfway to edge
No EQ

JVM OD1 Green
JVM OD1 Orange
JVM OD1 Red

If I was seriously trying to get the best out of Orange and Red modes, I'd set the amp differently. This is just to show the basic sound and the jump in gain from mode to mode.

Thanks, Greg. You're not helping!

 

[Greg_L]

Thanks, Greg. You're not helping!

Lol. Go get it.

I've never messed with the combo version. I think it has two Vintage 30s maybe?

Nope, just googled it, Vintage 30 and a "Heritage"? A G12H30 wouldn't live long in there, so maybe it's a G12-65?

 

[Lt. Bob]

Well, technically it just cuts the power in half (pentode/triode), ..

not really ..... it changes the operation of the power tube from pentode to triode mode .... a side effect of that is cutting the power output so most people use it for that purpose but it actually changes how the tube is operating.
It's essentially the same thing as putting a different type of tube in there.

Switching to triode mode (7.5W) on my Vox definitely changes the tone. It's more than just a cut in volume. .

a triode tube has a control grid, a plate and a cathode while a pentode adds two more grids .... a screen grid and suppressor grid I think.
So when you switch from pentode to triode you disconnect two of the grids.

That's why a pentode is called a pentode .... it has 5 elements doing their thing while a triode has only 3 elements.

They absolutely have different sounds ..... to my ears triode is mushier or smoother if you will with a softer attack and there's a little bit of loss of highs.

Personally I tend to prefer pentode mode but since it doesn't soften the attack it's a pretty revealing mode ..... sloppiness in your playing stands out more than with a triode.











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