The overwhelmingly biggest flaw in your dated thought process and silly approach is that you are "marketing" your unlistenable snippets of crap to fellow nobody musicians. We're the most jaded and judgmental bunch there is. You need to be pushing your shit on the unwashed masses. The musically dumb. The listeners, not the creators. They're the people that could potentially buy your hopes and dreams.
Marketing "How to", (he he)
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The overwhelmingly biggest flaw in your dated thought process and silly approach is that you are "marketing" your unlistenable snippets of crap to fellow nobody musicians. We're the most jaded and judgmental bunch there is. You need to be pushing your shit on the unwashed masses. The musically dumb. The listeners, not the creators. They're the people that could potentially buy your hopes and dreams.
1. You do not have to be popular to give advise. I learn many valuable things from people who are not popular.
2. It is not a fact that advise of a popular man is valuable and reasonable. History shows that it is otherwise.
Steenamaroo
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Is your advice based on any experience or results, or just opinion?
I've downloaded free songs then purchased albums from the same artist so, immediately, your fact is no longer fact.
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
I'll re-write what I said: "Of the bands that make money, they make it touring and on merchandise. If you're not making any money, then touring won't help."
So in the end, nobody is actually making money but the producer and the roadies.
Steenamaroo
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Again, I have to question if this is just some opinion or if it's based on experience.
It's certainly not true.
It might be true most of the time, but it's no good as a blanket statement.
R
RAMI
Guest
You missed my point, my friend. Of course you don't have to be popular to have an opinion. None of us here in this discussion are popular and we're all giving our opinions. I'm laughing at the fact that you think there's a possibility that you'll ever be popular. I don't want to burst your bubble, but it ain't going to happen. On top of that, if you're playing music in the hopes that you're going to make money and/or be popular, I got news for you.
I have talked to and watched quite a number of bands and artists (not widely known) that I do respect and adore. But my answer would be - my opinion, to be correct.
You downloaded and you purchased - you are exception - from my point of view. Most of the people will not purchase.
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No comments. I simply do not want to respond to such an assumption.
I have to respond or people will misunderstand. I am not here to sell. I am here to find a partner to build something new. And i am looking for a partner not only here, and it is not related to selling my songs. And by the way - I LOVE my songs. They are not shit - they are a gift that I was given, and for me - they are great. And I feel no shame to say this. And I understand that for majority of people my songs are piece of shit.
Steenamaroo
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I would say your point of view is warped, and I would guess it's a result of bitterness.
Of course, that's just my opinion. ;-)
Yes you might be right. I cannot argue against that because I made no polling and have no empiric data. But people are always after free breakfast. It is our nature, and I have seen it a lot in life
I would be glad to be wrong, and maybe I am. Time will show 
jimmys69
MOODerator
Yes you might be right. I cannot argue against that because I made no polling and have no empiric data. But people are always after free breakfast. It is our nature, and I have seen it a lot in life
Actually I would say the first step is to have your product in the best form it can be in. Right now, I must sadly say that it is not.
Then worry about promotion or whatever. Right now it does sound like 'pipe dream' hypothesizing. 'Horse before the cart'. 'Eggs in a basket'...
Focus on creating something that the general public would want to buy first.
Or just have fun and be proud of the music you make.
Schwarzenyaeger
Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
I was trying to fit into the general sentiment of being bitter to the poor OP.
No, this topic is not about my songs at all
I have found (in my opinion) many serious marketing issues that are arguable (related to songs marketing). As for me (as media director in advertising agency) marketing is just a way to get paid. I mean to generate income, to justify what you are doing. I remember tender of Coca Cola in 2010. We have received marketing brief from head office. The point was that guys in Coca Cola marketing asked themselves a question "why moms of a kids aged 3-6 years old do not buy Cocoa Cola? It is such a valuable drink it gives happiness and can fit any national dishes." And their marketing objective was to effectively deliver this stupid message to young moms. I have 4 years old daughter. I will definitely never give that piece of chemistry called Coca Cola to her. Neither my wife will do, nor majority of young moms, unless they want to damage stomachs of their babies. yes indeed there are some really smart and effective strategies in marketing mainly addressed to cost optimization, but in general marketing is something like that stupid tender of Coca Cola. And I suspect "marketing how to"s for unknown musicians is the same thing. And as I said before, in my opinion I have found many wrong "how to"s.
I just want to raise questions here and to discuss. In my particular case I am more focused on production issues, as all that I have is line 6 soundcard with podfarm software and vst, AKG headphones and cheap acoustic and electric guitars, and I want to make this sound as better as possible
I have found (in my opinion) many serious marketing issues that are arguable (related to songs marketing). As for me (as media director in advertising agency) marketing is just a way to get paid. I mean to generate income, to justify what you are doing. I remember tender of Coca Cola in 2010. We have received marketing brief from head office. The point was that guys in Coca Cola marketing asked themselves a question "why moms of a kids aged 3-6 years old do not buy Cocoa Cola? It is such a valuable drink it gives happiness and can fit any national dishes." And their marketing objective was to effectively deliver this stupid message to young moms. I have 4 years old daughter. I will definitely never give that piece of chemistry called Coca Cola to her. Neither my wife will do, nor majority of young moms, unless they want to damage stomachs of their babies. yes indeed there are some really smart and effective strategies in marketing mainly addressed to cost optimization, but in general marketing is something like that stupid tender of Coca Cola. And I suspect "marketing how to"s for unknown musicians is the same thing. And as I said before, in my opinion I have found many wrong "how to"s.
I just want to raise questions here and to discuss. In my particular case I am more focused on production issues, as all that I have is line 6 soundcard with podfarm software and vst, AKG headphones and cheap acoustic and electric guitars, and I want to make this sound as better as possible
Steenamaroo
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Time will tell, indeed.I would be glad to be wrong, and maybe I am. Time will show
There's your first mistake. Don't do that.
You've succeeded with that, and I hope you get something useful from it.
I hope the rest of the forum does too.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
I know a few people who live off their music. They were not independently wealthy to begin with and are not exactly rich now, but they don't have any kind of "real jobs" but do manage to get by relatively well. For all of them, all of their revenue is driven by live performance.
Edit to add -
I think ultimately, though, that if you want to get paid equivalent to a full time job, then you have to actually work at it like a full time (or more) job. Put in the hours and pay the dues. Push yourself and the people around you.
Edit to add -
I think ultimately, though, that if you want to get paid equivalent to a full time job, then you have to actually work at it like a full time (or more) job. Put in the hours and pay the dues. Push yourself and the people around you.
Your first post was spamming yourself then you made this dumpster fire of a thread about marketing and selling. So yeah, you are here to sell. I think you probably had good but naive intentions that have backfired hilariously. I'm just telling you that this is probably the worst place to peddle your darling songs.
Armistice
Son of Yoda
My argument against that sentence is that it's not good English. You mean "the incentive" yes?
I listened to your watermark tune - it's the first time I've heard a watermarked song - it was incredibly distracting with a very doleful voice, you I presume, saying "this is a watermark" or whatever - and it made me not want to buy the song because you just sounded like an incredibly unhappy depressed dude. Sorry 'n all...
You'll do what you want of course, we all do, but if you have to watermark, take my advice and find a better way to do it that doesn't suck all the joy out of the listening experience.
BTW, I've sold about $2500 since Mar of my band's CD.... not online, but by going and standing in front of people and saying "Buy my CD!" I'm guessing less than half have listened to it, but that's OK... those that do seem to like it, and every now and then you get random "awesomeness" vibes from someone. Bugger all online sales. Absent real cash, that'll do for me for currency...
It is impossible for several reasons. Main is that I live in country of Georgia, where population is only 4.7 millions, and rock music has extremely little audience. Even our pop stars from Georgian TV very rarely perform solo live concerts, and I know that they hardly cover cost of concert hall equipment and etc. Second - who will feed my family if i spend all my working time on music? So it is impossible. And again - I do appreciate advises related to my songs and selling them, and would like to get as many as possible, again many thanks to everybody for this, but keep in mind that first question I raised is - giving free samples or making music available for full length preview KILLS DEMAND for it and reduces chances of the mp3 to be sold. That is the point to discuss
Nobody gave you right to call me a liar. When I say i am not here to sell, means that I am not here to sell. That does not means that I do not want to sell my songs.
I am here for reason different than selling songs. I investigated and was present for ears on different sites reverbnation, myspace, cdbaby, stereofame and etc. I have noticed that none of them is perfect. Each of them has some interesting and valuable ideas implemented and each of them has something that reduces chances for mp3 sales. I put together all interesting ideas and made a concept that I have in mind. And here I want get opinion on several issues of that concept.
Right. Sorry, but English is not my native. Thank you for your advise regarding my watermark. I will change it or remove and leave only 1 minute previews. I want to stress that watermark is something that I have seen on internet - audiojungle. And they have big business as far as I know. Not sure for 100% in the volume of their business though. Actually - it is not an issue of a watermark - one can make only previews like on CD baby. I digged your songs on CD baby, excellent work. The issue is to give free samples and full time previews, that at my opinion reduces chances of selling mp3s or not to do so. I believe that second will increase possibility of sales. Again I shall quote myself with correction - "When an ordinary listener discovers a song that he likes and has possibility to listen to it several times, he loses incentive to purchase this song."
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