Marketing "How to", (he he)

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Lugatt

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It makes me smile when i read "how to" related to promoting and marketing songs. Mainly because someone decades ago have made something new, and at that time it worked, and everybody is trying to repeat it and teach others, in already changed environment.

First thing I would like to raise is free samples. Some people like to say - if you want to get noticed give away free mp3s. They really think that the listener who is offered a "free mp3 download" is an idiot? In case if he DECIDES to download it (But why he had to download when he can listen to it online at home or using mobile inet?) it will not mean that he will by all other mp3s to support an artist. He will wait until they will become free for limited period of time. But the main point is that he will not do this neither. If he discovers songs he likes, he will listen to it maybe 10 times maybe 20 times and his demand for this song particular song will fade away. You cannot eat chocolate every five minutes. It will lose its taste.

Guys from Apple have realized this simple issue and you cannot get full preview of the mp3 on iTunes. But poor musicians - cannot. They put their songs on soundcloud reverbnation youtube. Smart guys can use "Record what you hear" button and get your sound for free, some may use two soundcards - one integrated and another - usb and get recorded "what they hear". Thanks to God there are tuneport.com or routenote.com/ or others that can help you make excellent online store for reasonable commission.

So at my opinion if you want to make some money from your songs - make available only audio watermarked part time audio previews to keep listeners interested in purchasing your music. If you put on youtube - they will listen to it several times and will forget.

To be continued ...
 
Sure there are workarounds. But I get a lot of free downloads from newreleasetuesday.com and others. It doesn't make me want to wait for more free music, it makes me wonder what the rest of the project is like if this one is FREE.

Something I've done on songs that are no longer available for sale (there are some obscure oldies that I couldn't find) is to go on YouTube and use the Download this video button and then convert the video to audio. Lousy quality, but at least I can hear the song instead of remember how much I liked it...what I'm saying here, is that posting full high quality vids on YouTube and others can get your music ripped off just as easy as putting it on Soundcloud, click, reverbnation, etc. I personally don't own anything I haven't bought or downloaded free, but when a CD gets lost, stolen, drooled on, etc. I want to get the music back...if I can't find it for sale again, I'll get it if I can.

I personally hate the 30 second sound bites on amazon and iBuffoons. I much prefer to go to an artist's website and hear the full length (even if it's watermarked), or hear album previews (which almost always are watermarked).
 
And what are your credentials to be giving anyone lessons on marketing?

If you're just a nobody nothing like everyone else, then why should anyone listen to you? Everyone thinks they have the answer while actually doing and selling nothing. But maybe you're rich and famous. Do share.

The bottom line is that your music is worth what someone will pay for it. If they only want it if it's free, then that's all it's worth.

It's time to face reality and understand that there is no money in original music unless you're selling jingles.
 
The point is, as it always has been: Thieves will steal what they want. Honest people will buy what they want, and take what is offered for free. Proud people won't take handouts, regardless. I know all three types. I'm sure you all do, too.

I know people who never pay for their music. I know people who will take a free download if offered. I know people who would rather purchase the song from a website than take it free when the artist offers.
 
No, the point is about demand. I am not talking about thieves, there are always will be thieves and this is not a problem. When an ordinary listener discovers a song that he likes and has possibility to listen to it several times, he loses incite to purchase this song. The summary of my statement is that if you give full audio preview possibility to listeners, chances of the sale of the song reduces drastically. If your song has an audio watermark or 30 second preview, there IS small (again - SMALL) chance that this song can be sold.
 
RAMI said:
linkslinks
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This.

Streaming services are delivering the death blow. That song by Avici had 168 million plays on Pandora and he didn't even make 20k$ off of it. He earned below minimum wage by making what was maybe the years most popular radio and club song. That is pathetic.
The money is in performing. I assume that he gets many multiples of 20k every evening he does a live set.
 
Schwarzenyaeger said:
The money is in performing.
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This has kind of always been true for most of us. I remember "How to" articles back in the early 90s that said to go out and play and tour as much as possible. Make money off of "ticket" sales and use that to pay expenses and save up to record. Build a fan base by providing memorable live experiences. Then sell your recordings to those people.
 
it is not dreaming. it is matter of justice. I do not need platinium records or being in a forbes. I am media director at advertising agency, our clients are huge, well known brands. They spend millions to sell their stuff (I am not saying ****) to people, and I do nothing. I mean I produce nothing. My job is to bla bla bla them with something that is called Media Strategy, Media Planning. I produce nothing tangible nothing valuable. And I get paid for this. I do not know how my songs are great or not, but they are years of my life. And I am not an exclusion - many great musicians I have met over internet, and I suspect they neither have an appropriate income from touring and mp3 selling. There are two ways - just sitting and sayng that all is in vain and we have to be realistic, and another way is to try to do something. Again 0 I do not need to be a kind of a rock star, but I want to have income from making songs that will equal my income from doing nothing but bla bla bla. Advertisement does not makes the world better, and even has no potential of it. And music does have. I need justice.

RAMI said:
Dude, there's nothing wrong with dreaming. But the fact is this: You're not going to sell your music. You might make a few sales, but forget about it being anything worth talking about.

It's over: Not One Artist's Album Has Gone Platinum In 2014 - Forbes



Take your pick: https://www.google.ca/search?q=no+p...hannel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=RfpcVL32NYqN8Qfs34DgCA
Click to expand...
 
Lugatt said:
It makes me smile when i read "how to" related to promoting and marketing songs. Mainly because someone decades ago have made something new, and at that time it worked, and everybody is trying to repeat it and teach others, in already changed environment.

First thing I would like to raise is free samples. Some people like to say - if you want to get noticed give away free mp3s. They really think that the listener who is offered a "free mp3 download" is an idiot? In case if he DECIDES to download it (But why he had to download when he can listen to it online at home or using mobile inet?) it will not mean that he will by all other mp3s to support an artist. He will wait until they will become free for limited period of time. But the main point is that he will not do this neither. If he discovers songs he likes, he will listen to it maybe 10 times maybe 20 times and his demand for this song particular song will fade away. You cannot eat chocolate every five minutes. It will lose its taste.

Guys from Apple have realized this simple issue and you cannot get full preview of the mp3 on iTunes. But poor musicians - cannot. They put their songs on soundcloud reverbnation youtube. Smart guys can use "Record what you hear" button and get your sound for free, some may use two soundcards - one integrated and another - usb and get recorded "what they hear". Thanks to God there are tuneport.com or routenote.com/ or others that can help you make excellent online store for reasonable commission.

So at my opinion if you want to make some money from your songs - make available only audio watermarked part time audio previews to keep listeners interested in purchasing your music. If you put on youtube - they will listen to it several times and will forget.

To be continued ...
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, I completely disagree.
A free release is a great way to create a bit of buzz and to introduce your music to new listeners.
I imagine the idea is that a lot more people will hear you, become aware of you, and like you, so that when you release something for sale you've got a better starting point.
Obviously more people will consider buying your record because more people are aware of it.

It doesn't work if you've got ten fans, four of whom are family, though.


The water mark? I don't get it.
All a watermark ever says to me is "I have an unjustifiable faith in my sub-standard product".
I'm not specifically talking about you here, but I've never heard a watermark on anything worth stealing. Something to think about.

As far as flat rules and generalisations about the potential buyer.......he doesn't exist.
You can't create rules and profiles dictating how a potential buyer will act because there are just too many different types of person out there.
To say that someone won't listen to a song more than X times, or that they won't buy something after a certain point just doesn't work, for me.
 
Lugatt said:
My job is to bla bla bla them
Click to expand...

And it seems that's what you're trying to do here.

You can spew as many meaningless paragraphs as you want here, the bottom line is still this: You're not going to sell any significant amount of your music. You can talk about "justice' and any other concept all you want, it's not going to change the fact you're not going to sell your music, because nobody's going to buy it. Watermarking it will make it sell even less. Guaranteed.

Like I said, there's nothing wrong with dreaming, but you should at least be in touch with reality enough to realize this.

Tell you what. we'll make a date. I'll meet you back here in one year, November 7, 2015. You tell me how much of your music you sold. I get about $20 every 2 months from CDBABY. That's $120 a year. So, I'm predicting that I'll sell $120 worth of my music between now and then. I'm predicting you won't sell more than that. It's not a competition or anything like that. I just know that nobody buys music any more, not even from established "stars". So why would they buy it from me and you?

No point arguing about it. I'll see you in a year. :)
 
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Steenamaroo said:
The water mark? I don't get it.
All a watermark ever says to me is "I have an unjustifiable faith in my sub-standard product".
I'm not specifically talking about you here, but I've never heard a watermark on anything worth stealing. Something to think about.
Click to expand...

I dunno about that. I've just never heard a watermark in my entire life on a song.
 
Schwarzenyaeger said:
I dunno about that. I've just never heard a watermark in my entire life on a song.
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I tried listening to this guy's song yesterday, with the watermark. I couldn't listen to more than 15 seconds of the song before I turned it off. It's annoying as hell (not the song, the watermark). Great marketing. :D
 
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ashcat_lt said:
This has kind of always been true for most of us. I remember "How to" articles back in the early 90s that said to go out and play and tour as much as possible. Make money off of "ticket" sales and use that to pay expenses and save up to record. Build a fan base by providing memorable live experiences. Then sell your recordings to those people.
Click to expand...

That's not accurate anymore either. There is no money to be made because there are too many bands and the public doesn't care about new original live music unless it's fed to them by a trusted corporate entity. Unless you are an already well established band or have some kind of corporate backing/sponsorship, a touring band will hemorrhage money. Touring is a vanity project. Bands want to tour because they think it's cool. sure, it can be fun, but you will make no money and no one will remember you unless you do something ridiculous.
 
Lugatt said:
it is not dreaming. it is matter of justice. I do not need platinium records or being in a forbes. I am media director at advertising agency, our clients are huge, well known brands. They spend millions to sell their stuff (I am not saying ****) to people, and I do nothing. I mean I produce nothing. My job is to bla bla bla them with something that is called Media Strategy, Media Planning. I produce nothing tangible nothing valuable. And I get paid for this. I do not know how my songs are great or not, but they are years of my life. And I am not an exclusion - many great musicians I have met over internet, and I suspect they neither have an appropriate income from touring and mp3 selling. There are two ways - just sitting and sayng that all is in vain and we have to be realistic, and another way is to try to do something. Again 0 I do not need to be a kind of a rock star, but I want to have income from making songs that will equal my income from doing nothing but bla bla bla. Advertisement does not makes the world better, and even has no potential of it. And music does have. I need justice.
Click to expand...

You seem to think you are entitled to money just because you "make music". Again, your music is worth exactly what someone will pay for it. If no one is buying your music, that's because it has no value. If you want to actually make some money, go play cover songs at casinos and bingo halls. Join a wedding band. Keep in mind that no one wants to hear your bad originals though. Just keep playing Mustang Sally and collect your hundred bucks and go the fuck home.
 
So far, for me, (I might be wrong) there is no reasonable argument against this statement "When an ordinary listener discovers a song that he likes and has possibility to listen to it several times, he loses incite to purchase this song." Except that these issue does requires attention "I tried listening to this guy's song yesterday, with the watermark. I couldn't listen to more than 15 seconds of the song before I turned it off. It's annoying as hell (not the song, the watermark). Great marketing." But this is more the matter of polling issue. But in any case audiojungle have built their business and watermark for them is a must. I do not think that they are stupid as their business is large.

Anyway - my advice is - do not give away free samples to get popular. The one who gets free sample from you will never buy your mp3. It is up to you.
 
Lugatt said:
Anyway - my advice is - do not give away free samples to get popular.
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LOL @ "Get popular".
The one who gets free sample from you will never buy your mp3.
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Neither will anyone else.

I have nothing against you or your opinion. I just think that you don't realize what has happened to the music "business"...Namely, there is no more music business. Not only has it changed in the last 10 years. It has even drastically changed in the last 4 or 5 years. It's over, man. Like I said, I didn't really got a chance to listen to your music because of that water-mark. I'm not judging your music. It might be awesome. But it doesn't matter any more. Play music for the love of music, because if you're playing music for the love of money, you're in the wrong (non)business. I hope you prove me wrong, and if you did, I'd be happy for you. But I think I'm being realistic. I WISH I was wrong, because I would love nothing more than to make a living from music, but those days are gone. It ain't gonna happen for me, you or anyone else here.

See you in a year. ;)
 
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