Feedback on mixing my first attempt at a song

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Xcaliber

Xcaliber

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I've recorded a track with some guitars, bass and drums (using EZ Drummer) and I've got the parts how I like them. It sounds pretty good through my Rokit 5's and my Presonus "mixing" headphones, but through my laptop speakers, earbuds and my iMac speakers the guitars come through too loud and the bass is almost non-existent. The drums sound weak and "behind" the other guitars too much. I've gain staged everything and it's all around -12 db, but I haven't done any real mixing yet. What do I need to do to "fix" this? Is it EQ that the track needs? I haven't really successfully mixed a track before, but I'm trying to use this as a learning opportunity.

Another thing I'm confused about is that I've got all of the tracks at -12 db, but the main track still clips when a few times during playback. Should I also turn the main volume down to get it under -12 db in the mix? I'm only going off what I've read about gain staging and making headroom for mastering later.

Here's a link to the track unmixed (but gain staged on each individual track):


Thanks in advance.
 
Use the faders. That's what they're for. Guitars are too loud? Bring them down. Mix it.

You can't just shoot for a number and call it good. No one mixes like that. Let me guess, you've had -12 dbfs beaten into your head over and over, right? Lol. This is where internet groupthink has steered you wrong. It's nice to come in around -12 when tracking. That's all though. After that you have to mix it. It's not just gonna all work out just because you came in at -12 for everything.

If you're clipping the master bus, turn the tracks down. Then when you bounce out for mastering, you can slide the master fader down too if you need to hit a number for the mastering guy.
 
Thanks Greg. The thing is the levels sound good on my monitors and mixing headphones, but everywhere else it sounds like shit. Is that normal? Did you give the mp3 a listen? Could you tell me what you think? That would help me a lot.

I'll stop worrying about -12 dbs so much, thanks for that info. I did learn it from "the internet".

One more question on mastering, I don't expect I'll be ready to pay for or send my stuff to someone to master for a while (since I'm doing it for fun as a hobby)...is mastering an absolute necessity or is it something I can do myself? I'll probably be just throwing stuff on SoundCloud and sharing it with my friends.
 
Xcaliber said:
Thanks Greg. The thing is the levels sound good on my monitors and mixing headphones, but everywhere else it sounds like shit. Is that normal? Did you give the mp3 a listen? Could you tell me what you think? That would help me a lot.
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Oh yeah, sorry, I did listen. The guitars are indeed too out front. Drop em back some. It does sound totally "unmixed" and raw as can be. Also, EZ drummer gives you some easy access drum tracks for sure, but they sound like a robot playing a casio keyboard. There are things you can do to humanize those drum tracks, but get to that later. Start tweaking those faders first.

I'll stop worrying about -12 dbs so much, thanks for that info. I did learn it from "the internet".
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-12 is a good target to aim for when tracking. Shoot for that and you'll never really go wrong. But it doesn't end there. You still gotta mix. -12 is just a "safe" number that leaves you a good safety cushion from clipping.

One more question on mastering, I don't expect I'll be ready to pay for or send my stuff to someone to master for a while (since I'm doing it for fun as a hobby)...is mastering an absolute necessity or is it something I can do myself? I'll probably be just throwing stuff on SoundCloud and sharing it with my friends.
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Mastering is actually getting a collection of songs ready for distribution and human consumption. We sort of misuse the term in here as a general way to say "make it louder". No, you don't have to "master" anything if it's just for fun and friends. There are things done during the "mastering" process that can enhance your final mix though. But cross that bridge when you get to it. Get a good mix going first.
 
Thanks for the input Greg. I'll keep working on it, but it's getting really frustrating. I had it sounding good in the earbuds and then I flipped on the monitors and it sounds like shit in there now.
 
Should I just forget trying to get it to sound good on all speakers and build for the most likely scenario for my "audience"?
 
How is your room treatment? You are describing classic symptoms of a non-treated room (no bass, mid is too up front, cymbals are too far back). Also make sure that your speakers are pointing just behind your ears. That will help a lot (if they are 5' apart, then you need to be 5' away (equilateral triangle). Had the same troubles not too long ago!
 
Xcaliber said:
Should I just forget trying to get it to sound good on all speakers and build for the most likely scenario for my "audience"?
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No fuck that. That's insane. Get your mixing room treatment and monitoring situation in order. When your mixing position stops lying to you, your mix will translate everywhere on every system.
 
^^^^^ Listen carefully. Greg is part of the crew here that freed me from my "cage". Takes time, takes money, but mostly it takes knowledge and the application of that knowledge. Don't get frustrated, just get experience.
 
Greg_L said:
Get your mixing room treatment and monitoring situation in order. When your mixing position stops lying to you, your mix will translate everywhere on every system.
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+1!
I had my painting looking great with my yellow glasses on, but it looks shit through my red ones.

Treat the room, position the monitors well, and get to know the monitors. Then you'll be able to trust what you're hearing.
There's always variation across different systems, but if you do ^^ it should be expected, or tolerable, variation.
 
These guys speak the truth. The bottom line is you can't trust what you are hearing. Your room is lying. Get some room treatment up and it will make a world of difference. You can probably do it in a weekend for a couple hundred bucks. If you don't have a couple hundred bucks right now start with one or two pieces and just keep building more as you can. Once you can trust what you are hearing if it sounds good in your room it will sound good in the car, in the headphones, on the plane, even at Steeno's house.
 
Steenamaroo said:
+1!
I had my painting looking great with my yellow glasses on, but it looks shit through my red ones.

Treat the room, position the monitors well, and get to know the monitors. Then you'll be able to trust what you're hearing.
There's always variation across different systems, but if you do ^^ it should be expected, or tolerable, variation.
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Yes, exactly. It's never gonna sound the same everywhere, but it will sound good everywhere when your get your mixing environment squared away.
 
polarity said:
Once you can trust what you are hearing if it sounds good in your room it will sound good in the car, in the headphones, on the plane, even at Steeno's house.
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Not even Greg's mixes sound good at my house. ;)
 
"12dB" on its own doesn't mean much. Is that peak or average?

If you're going to pick a target level I would suggest -18dBFS average. Pan everything center, solo one track at a time and use the gain function (like Pro Tools' clip gain, not the volume fader) to make the average level -18dBFS. Actually, if your DAW's pan law is set to -3dB, which is typical, make your average level -21dBFS for a center panned track. Doing this will make it just about impossible to clip the main bus.
 
It's very easy to overcomplicate things.
Take Greg's advice and run.

Aim to keep your meters below -12 whilst tracking to avoid the two extremes - Recording audible noise or clipping your converters.

Once tracking's done like that you'll know you have a set of healthy tracks that can be mixed as needed.

Simples.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Pan everything center, solo one track at a time and use the gain function (like Pro Tools' clip gain, not the volume fader) to make the average level -18dBFS. Actually, if your DAW's pan law is set to -3dB, which is typical, make your average level -21dBFS for a center panned track. Doing this will make it just about impossible to clip the main bus.
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Of course, if you record at these levels in the first place then you don't have to readjust anything. But tracking isn't always perfect so the above gets it ready for the mix.

I find "-18dBFS average" just as simple a concept as "below -12dBFS", but either will work.
 
I don't think room treatment is an option for me at this point. My "studio" is a folding table in the corner of the finished basement so it's a big room and I can't hang acoustic treatments on the walls down there for aesthetic reasons. I don't know how well it would work anyway since my desk is not placed in a way that I could put the treatment behind where I sit or on both sides of the desk.
 
Xcaliber said:
I don't think room treatment is an option for me at this point. My "studio" is a folding table in the corner of the finished basement so it's a big room and I can't hang acoustic treatments on the walls down there for aesthetic reasons. I don't know how well it would work anyway since my desk is not placed in a way that I could put the treatment behind where I sit or on both sides of the desk.
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I agree that the guitars sound too dominant and the drums are kind of robotic sounding.

With regard to not being able to treat that space, have you spent a good deal of time down there just listening to music? It might really help to just spend some quality time listening to a lot of commercially produced music (particularly from a similar genre to what you want to do) in that space so that you get used to how something you know is well produced sounds in that environment. You would then be able to listen to your own tracks in that same space with a better sense of what sounds objectively "good".

My apologies if you've already done that in which case I've offered you nothing.
 
That's ok heatmiser. It's good advice for sure.

The thing I don't understand is my song sounds pretty good (the guitars even are a little less dominant) on my monitors and mixing headphones, but it sounds like crap on earbuds and laptop speakers. Then when I mix it for the laptop and earbuds it sounds like crap on my monitors and mixing headphones. I was trying to get a balance between the two where it sounds good in both places.
 
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