Recording mid-side for flute?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Spinney Lainey
  • Start date Start date
Spinney Lainey

Spinney Lainey

New member
I recently started a thread about condenser microphone recommendations for flute. I have a SE Electronics SEX1R ribbon mic and was thinking about getting a condenser mic and then recording mid-side? Would this be the best set-up for mixing a condenser with a ribbon mic? Any tips for this, as I'm new to home recording....? If I did buy a condenser mic for this, would it be a good idea to go for the SEX1 (the condenser mic version of my ribbon mic), so they'd be similar in sound?

EDIT: The reason I'm thinking of getting a condenser mic is because the ribbon mic sounds lovely when I listen to the recording in isolation but when I'm putting it in an electronic music mix, it's getting a bit lost.......
 
Last edited:
Spinney Lainey said:
I recently started a thread about condenser microphone recommendations for flute. I have a SE Electronics SEX1R ribbon mic and was thinking about getting a condenser mic and then recording mid-side? Would this be the best set-up for mixing a condenser with a ribbon mic? Any tips for this, as I'm new to home recording....? If I did buy a condenser mic for this, would it be a good idea to go for the SEX1 (the condenser mic version of my ribbon mic), so they'd be similar in sound?
Click to expand...
I would have thought a small diaphragm capacitor would have been a better choice? Possibly one with a 20dB pad to match the sensitivity of the ribbon more closely?

Dave.
 
Hi,
Any need for a stereo setup? That's a genuine question.

Have you tried the ribbon straight up? They're often recommended for flute on the basis that the response is less likely to result in harsh sound.

To directly answer your question, Yes.
Midside is probably this be the best set-up for mixing a condenser with a ribbon mic.
At least it's probably the most common.
 
Last edited:
Unless you've got some sort of fantastic room sound you want to capture just use one mic on a flute. It's not big enough to have a meaningful stereo sound of its own.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Unless you've got some sort of fantastic room sound you want to capture just use one mic on a flute. It's not big enough to have a meaningful stereo sound of its own.
Click to expand...

I agree, the sound of the room does play a big role because 90% of the sound is the reflection in the room.

there is a subtle balance in rotation of the ribbon and you have to find the right spot in the room for the best stereo sound. monitor what you are doing with the microphones via headphones, both panned opposite directions. position microphones for the best sound, then pan the channels back between center and full pan (50% L and 50% R) then go back and fine tune microphone position.

place the ribbon mic so the element is horizontal position pointing down above the shoulder 18-24" and between the shoulder and elbow the large condenser microphone is off center in front pointing more at the performer's cheek about 18-24" away. Sometimes I found the one in front too breathy (depends on performer and weather that sound would work with the song) so I use a large dynamic beta 52 or even my favorite LDM: D12. If I am not getting the highs I want, I'll switch the D12 to a sm57.

also be aware most ribbons have a bright and dark side sound. you may want to try both to find which one works well with the tones of the instrument and room reflection (ceiling bounce).
 
I hesitate to intrude where there is vastly more experience than I possess but I do think there is a place for stereo even for a single instrument like a flute or voice.

Firstly the room. I have a bad one! However, using a pair of SDCs in CO-I seems to give back the natural sound of the room, which although not good at least sounds "natural".

Then, has anyone else noticed that wind players can't keep bloody still???! With single mic those gyrations come over as weird level shifts (and tonal to some extent due to proximity and off axis effects to a degree) . In stereo of course the image just moves!

Just my feeble offerings...

Dave.
 
Steenamaroo said:
Hi,
Any need for a stereo setup? That's a genuine question.

Have you tried the ribbon straight up? They're often recommended for flute on the basis that the response is less likely to result in harsh sound.

To directly answer your question, Yes.
Midside is probably this be the best set-up for mixing a condenser with a ribbon mic.
At least it's probably the most common.
Click to expand...

Hi, yes - I have tried the ribbon mic by itself and it sounds lovely, which is why I bought it (especially for the fact the low notes sound fuller and the high notes less harsh) BUT I am doing flute recordings for electronic dance music (progressive psytrance) and it tends to get a bit lost in the mix. Hence was thinking about coupling it with a condenser to give it a bit more presence in the mix.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Unless you've got some sort of fantastic room sound you want to capture just use one mic on a flute. It's not big enough to have a meaningful stereo sound of its own.
Click to expand...

My room is not great but wouldn't it still be of benefit to have the sound of a condenser coupled with a ribbon mic to combine the lovely sound of the ribbon mic with the brightness of a condenser mic to give a bit more presence in the mix? By the way, I am doing these flute recordings for use in progressive psytrance - so the ribbon mic by itself seems to be getting a bit lost in the mix.
 
drtechno said:
be aware most ribbons have a bright and dark side sound. you may want to try both to find which one works well with the tones of the instrument and room reflection (ceiling bounce).
Click to expand...

Really? How does this work?
 
Spinney Lainey said:
My room is not great but wouldn't it still be of benefit to have the sound of a condenser coupled with a ribbon mic to combine the lovely sound of the ribbon mic with the brightness of a condenser mic to give a bit more presence in the mix? By the way, I am doing these flute recordings for use in progressive psytrance - so the ribbon mic by itself seems to be getting a bit lost in the mix.
Click to expand...

If you want more room sound just move the mic back. If your room isn't great it might be better to close mic it and use some artificial ambience or a slap back delay to make it pop out. Definitely try all your mics until you find the best sound. or even use two mics at once, side by side.
 
Spinney Lainey said:
Really? How does this work?
Click to expand...

The ribbon mic I've used most (R-101) isn't true figure 8 pattern, it's quasi figure 8 that's not symmetrical and not geometrically precise like a condenser figure 8. It's just how they work.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
If you want more room sound just move the mic back. If your room isn't great it might be better to close mic it and use some artificial ambience or a slap back delay to make it pop out. Definitely try all your mics until you find the best sound. or even use two mics at once, side by side.
Click to expand...

Ok, yes - I just watched a video about recording mid-side with the mics next to each other.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
If you want more room sound just move the mic back. If your room isn't great it might be better to close mic it and use some artificial ambience or a slap back delay to make it pop out. Definitely try all your mics until you find the best sound. or even use two mics at once, side by side.
Click to expand...

Did you mean some ribbon mics are darker than others?
 
Ok, so it's looking like it could be an idea to put the two mics next to each other and record mid-side. Just out of interest - who on here thinks it'd be worth adding a condenser mic to the ribbon mic in order to give the sound more body and help it cut-through a mix? On another forum - people seem to think it wouldn't make much difference and that one well positioned mic is better than using two.....has anyone had experiences of recording with two mics compared with one - how did it compare?
 
Ok, so it's looking like it could be an idea to put the two mics next to each other and record mid-side. Just out of interest - who on here thinks it'd be worth adding a condenser mic to the ribbon mic in order to give the sound more body and help it cut-through a mix? On another forum - people seem to think it wouldn't make much difference and that one well positioned mic is better than using two.....has anyone had experiences of recording with two mics compared with one - how did it compare?
 
I like to record acoustcinger songwriter guitar tracks with M/S.
I really like it because it fills the background nicely. Very ambiant and full.
Its so easy to do.
I've used and sdc as a mid mic as well as a 57 and a couple of Audio technica 58 alikes.
I always use a ribbon for the side mic.
Some people use other mics including ldc's and omni's
the technique has a very differant feel to an X/Y type stereo recording.
I think it would fit perfectly with what you intend to use it for.
The mics positioning is key, but then it always is.
Just monitor what your recording through the headphones and do some trial and error and error etc
What have you got to lose. You have the mics. Spend some time setting up. And then when you decode it and bring up the side mics thats when the magic happens.
Have fun.
 
Hi Lainey.
I don't think a mid-side setup is likely to help if your flute is getting lost in the mix,
but a two mic setup without aiming for stereo image could be useful….Who knows.

I'm more inclined to say move the mic around and find the perfect spot; If it doesn't exist, try a different mic.
I'm not entirely convinced that blending, or stereo capture is the way forward.

It's all about experimenting though, so try everything and anything and see what you come up with. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top