PLEASE HELP ... Frustrated about recording technique

  • Thread starter Thread starter stevepeter83
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In case you didn't put the previous comments together, a 3m x 3m square brick room is a very difficult space to record in for any number of reasons. This won't be helping your cause.
 
Thanks everyone.

Re: mike the other way around, i think i got it wrong =O i'll check again later.

So what reverb do you use for vocal? I have an effect called metal tank...any good?

Also, with vocal double up, do you use your own voice or other people's? I notice if i just use my voice if it'd harmony that's still ok but if i sing the exact same melody i have this weird robot like song. Why is that?
 
Check that mic first.

There is no right reverb type, nor maker/writer for every situation. The type of reverb is completely dependent upon what a particular person feels that each particular song or instrument needs. There is no way to give an answer there really.

Metal Tank? Please be more specific. Google of that just returns, well, tanks.

Doubling yourself is one way. Usually the most common. Doubling does not necessarily mean that the second track is at the same volume or sound as the original. Try using it below (in volume), or enhancing the original. In most cases, I wouldn't want it to sound like two tracks of the same line.
 
Aha. Yeah even when i lower the volume but the doubled vocal make it worse. Do you make it more muffled or pan it so it stands out? Oh man this vocal thing truly frustrates me.
 
stevepeter83 said:
So what reverb do you use for vocal? I have an effect called metal tank...any good?
Click to expand...

That sounds like it might be a little obnoxious. For a long ethereal reverb I look for the ones with names like "Cathedral".

stevepeter83 said:
Also, with vocal double up, do you use your own voice or other people's? I notice if i just use my voice if it'd harmony that's still ok but if i sing the exact same melody i have this weird robot like song. Why is that?
Click to expand...

Try singing into the mic at a different angle or distance, set it to a lower level, play with the eq etc. I typically lower the highs a bit to let the main vocal provide the definition while the double just adds thickness/body/beef/dimension. And I often compress the double harder to keep it tucked under the main vocal.
 
Ok, I just listened to your recording...

There is much to deal with before trying to get to your goal. I am going to start by saying that all of the tracks are lacking in body to begin with. I think your room is the primary negative factor. Nothing has any 'umph' to start with.

I am not trying to be a - well mean person, but there is always a first step to everything. It always starts from the source and the environment it is presented in. It sounds to me that your goals are being stifled before you even hit record. That being the room acoustics, the mic, and the performance. I don't think anyone could sound good in that room of yours to be honest. Sorry.

There seems to me, an obvious need for you to learn about compression, and EQ. Not just reading, but using these tools to find out how they work. This would be much easier to comprehend if the room was not making everything sound like the inside of a walk in cooler.

Room treatment will help you immensely, but finding a bigger room would be a better/cheaper start.

This is all just my opinionated opinion tho... :)
 
Thanks soooo much for the input everyyone, these mean the world to me.

Jimmy69, thanks mate. So even if the room acoustic is bad you can't use reverb or other effects to help?

I read somewhere that some pros stull record in a dead room but use reverb to help.

Wil this work?
 
Well, some use that approach (dead room), but what it takes to make a room dead, is much more cost than taking steps to make a room useable. Your room is far from 'dead'.

Reverb will never help a room that has its own short reflections (reverb). It likely will pummel it into submission actually.

Tell you what Steve, send me wav files of each of your tracks, without any effects. I can then make a better determination as to what the issues are, and give much more precise advise.
 
All is not lost.

First off, I'm one of those who says that if you can't have a studio that sounds great, just try to make it dead and add electronic reverb/presence later. Maybe this comes from spending a lot of my life working in TV studios which are carefully treated to be dead!

Yes, you can spend tons to treat a whole room but a cheap as chips solution is to build some frames using PVC pipe and joints you can buy from any DIY shop. Then, with the pipes as a support, hang quilts of movers blankets over them to make basic acoustic screens. Put one screen behind you when you record your vocal--your mic is mainly sensitive in one direction so, as long as the mic is pointing at you, the worst reflections will be coming off the wall behind you. Work with the screen fairly close to that one way so you're a good way from the opposite side. If your room is really bad, experiment with extra screens, maybe on the far wall behind the mic and/or maybe up to one or both sides of you (but not right by the mic).

Will this be as good as a pro studio where they spent a quarter of a million on acoustic treatment? Nope. Will it be darn close for spending fifty or a hundred bucks? Yup. It'll help a lot.
 
I'm impressed with you fellas for showing such patience with this fellow, and being so supportive.

I also agree about the Cathedral choice, or something akin to that..

Nothing like long verb trail at the end of a vox passage to give that lush effect..

cheers,
Rich
 
Hi guys,

I've checked the mike and I have actually pointed it to the right way so if it sounds bad then it must be the room or my mix or performance.

I mean I don't sing off key but somehow the voice just doesn't bland with the music.

The biggest thing for me is the methods those guys (and you guys) use to produce the voice similar to the "Friend of God" video link I posted earlier. I tried to do vocal double ups and that but somehow it doesn't sound like it.

On reverb, how do you set the parameters so that you can make the instrument is in front of (or rear) the others? The particular software I use has the following parameters:
- Pre-delay
- Mix with early reflection
- Length
- Damping
- Early reflections
- Room size
- Wet
- Dry

What are they and how to use it? It comes with several presets such as Cathedral, Large Hall, Large Hall 2, MEtal TAnk, etc.

Like rgoutte said, I thank you so much for your patience. Hey, I'm a professional musician who sucks at mixing and sound engineering. I know the sound that I'm looking for I just don't know how to get there.

So again, thank you. All of your suggestions have been so invaluable to me.
 
Bobbsy said:
All is not lost.

First off, I'm one of those who says that if you can't have a studio that sounds great, just try to make it dead and add electronic reverb/presence later. Maybe this comes from spending a lot of my life working in TV studios which are carefully treated to be dead!

Yes, you can spend tons to treat a whole room but a cheap as chips solution is to build some frames using PVC pipe and joints you can buy from any DIY shop. Then, with the pipes as a support, hang quilts of movers blankets over them to make basic acoustic screens. Put one screen behind you when you record your vocal--your mic is mainly sensitive in one direction so, as long as the mic is pointing at you, the worst reflections will be coming off the wall behind you. Work with the screen fairly close to that one way so you're a good way from the opposite side. If your room is really bad, experiment with extra screens, maybe on the far wall behind the mic and/or maybe up to one or both sides of you (but not right by the mic).

Will this be as good as a pro studio where they spent a quarter of a million on acoustic treatment? Nope. Will it be darn close for spending fifty or a hundred bucks? Yup. It'll help a lot.
Click to expand...

Now thats what Im talking about !!!:thumbs up:
 
Steenamaroo said:
Hi there, and welcome.

The technique on the verses is an automated long reverb tail.

By that I mean, there's a reverb with a long tail, but it's only introduced on certain words and phrases.
The easiest way to achieve this is to have your normal reverb on the vocals and then use automation to increase the reverb length briefly just in advance of key words.

The sound you hear in the chorus is multiple recordings of the main part, but also multiple recordings of at least one harmony part.
I'll admit, I only listened for long enough to get the idea, so I haven't counted them,
but a good start would be to record the chorus part twice, then record a harmony part twice.

Once done, you can pan a main and a harmony some degree to the left, and the other main and harmony the same degree to the right.

Hope that's useful to you.
Click to expand...
As far as the technique for this reverb in this song steen hit the nail on the head. Most people don't know how this is really don't. Jus like the above post stated automation. Might want to start looking into how your automation works on your daw.
 
stevepeter83 said:
Hi guys,

I've checked the mike and I have actually pointed it to the right way so if it sounds bad then it must be the room or my mix or performance.

I mean I don't sing off key but somehow the voice just doesn't bland with the music.

The biggest thing for me is the methods those guys (and you guys) use to produce the voice similar to the "Friend of God" video link I posted earlier. I tried to do vocal double ups and that but somehow it doesn't sound like it.

On reverb, how do you set the parameters so that you can make the instrument is in front of (or rear) the others? The particular software I use has the following parameters:
- Pre-delay
- Mix with early reflection
- Length
- Damping
- Early reflections
- Room size
- Wet
- Dry

What are they and how to use it? It comes with several presets such as Cathedral, Large Hall, Large Hall 2, MEtal TAnk, etc.

Like rgoutte said, I thank you so much for your patience. Hey, I'm a professional musician who sucks at mixing and sound engineering. I know the sound that I'm looking for I just don't know how to get there.

So again, thank you. All of your suggestions have been so invaluable to me.
Click to expand...
Now I understand all the parameters you mention, but explaining it...that's a whole nother task. Might need help from the other guys. As others mentioned the type of reverb maybe a cathedral or a long bright hall.

Per delay- the time it takes the actual sound to transcend into reverb this is the easiest way I can explain this. Basically the time it takes BEFORE the reverb Starts. Set in millisecond. Mostly high pre delay settings are used to separate the actual sound from the reverb so as not to swallow the initial sound source in a washy cloud of reverb that makes it sound as if it were in a cave.
Mix Early reflection- I'm guessing the mix of early reflection from the overall actual reverb. Could be wrong here.
Length- the actual length of the reverb tail sometimes set in miliseconds. You tend to get that long washy feel with high settings of length and tail.
Damping- the damping of the reverb some reverbs this is done with a damping eq.
Early reflec- the first reflection of the reverb. Can really get the sense size and feel of the room with this parameter.
Room size- the actual size of the room of the reverb.
Wet- how wet more effective the overall effect is.
Dry- how dry or less effective the overall effect is.

Be easier to know what reverb your using people here might be able to give you better options.
 
About the typo's I am on a iPhone the damn thing types what it thinks I'm trying to say. Those on a iPhone know we can't edit the post we post. If u know how please tell me I am easily the laughing stock of the entire forum now. :( geeeeze lol.
 
jaynm26 said:
About the typo's I am on a iPhone the damn thing types what it thinks I'm trying to say. Those on a iPhone know we can't edit the post we post. If u know how please tell me I am easily the laughing stock of the entire forum now. :( geeeeze lol.
Click to expand...
Nah, leave it. It's beautiful. :)

(Besides the fact that I don't see how someone typing " 't " instead of "e" can be a typo....but that's OK, I believe you) :D
 
stevepeter83 said:
hi guys,

i've checked the mike and i have actually pointed it to the right way so if it sounds bad then it must be the room or my mix or performance.

I mean i don't sing off key but somehow the voice just doesn't bland with the music.

The biggest thing for me is the methods those guys (and you guys) use to produce the voice similar to the "friend of god" video link i posted earlier. I tried to do vocal double ups and that but somehow it doesn't sound like it.

On reverb, how do you set the parameters so that you can make the instrument is in front of (or rear) the others? The particular software i use has the following parameters:
- pre-delay
- mix with early reflection
- length
- damping
- early reflections
- room size
- wet
- dry

what are they and how to use it? It comes with several presets such as cathedral, large hall, large hall 2, metal tank, etc.

Like rgoutte said, i thank you so much for your patience. Hey, i'm a professional musician who sucks at mixing and sound engineering. I know the sound that i'm looking for i just don't know how to get there.

So again, thank you. All of your suggestions have been so invaluable to me.
Click to expand...

Use your ears God gave you my brother:d
 
This isn't a quick solution by any means, but I've been working my way through 2 books on mixing which have been very helpful. They are "mixing audio" by Roey Izahki and "mixing secrets" by mike senior. Roey's book is sort of like an encyclopedia. Mike's is more about the process. Between them I think you'll find a great introduction to everything you're wondering about. The rest of it comes I hope with experience. I'm working on my first album. Once I finish the vocal and guitar composites I'll try applying what I've read and do some actual mixing *crosses fingers*.
 
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