Cheap wall treatment

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Th3Loni0us

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Hello

I'm turning a closet into somewhere to record vocals and drums, hand-claps, shakers etc.

I'm not looking to have top notch, just good enough. (hip-hop production so the sounds will just be EQ'd and re-sampled) What would you recommend to put on the walls?
I just had carpet replaced and was thinking that would be decent but someone at the music store told me it wouldn't allow for the low end to be absorbed. I was also told that a barrier mat would be decent.


Any suggestions? (and my apologies if this is the wrong thread.)
 
Welcome to HR, Th3loni0us.

Recording in a closet is a BAD idea unless you want to sound like you are recording in a closet. Putting enough treatment on the walls/ceiling would make the space prohibitively small - think 4" panels with 4" standoffs wall to wall.

You don't need a vocal booth. Just do it in the main room, dood.
 
+1 on that. If you ripped all the drywall down, filled the wall cavities with 703 or 705 and did the same with the ceiling you *might* have enough absorption in the baritone to make a closet a usable space.

Otherwise, just throw noisy gear in it.
 
Unfortunately the room acoustics are horrible (its a former garage) and its also the only spot that will allow me to place the mic (without having to move it after each use and not have feedback from the monitors).

The closet is about 9ft tall and about 40in deep/wide. The back is open to the rest of the room.
Would I be fine insulating the corners behind the mic w/ the foam sold at the music store and then getting some other material for the other walls?
 
FOAM WILL NOT WORK IN A CLOSET. All it does is attenuate the high end. 90% of the problematic energy (99% in a closet) is in the LOW end. Foam up a closet and you wind up with a mud room.

Heck, foam up any room and you wind up with a mud room. Foam is nice for tweaking an already properly treated space -- Not for the actual treatment of the space.
 
Thanks for all the help. Looks like I'll be re-arranging some things.
So can I just use an open corner of the room and put foam there and be ok?
If so how far (top/bottom) should I cover?
 
Th3Loni0us said:
Thanks for all the help. Looks like I'll be re-arranging some things.
So can I just use an open corner of the room and put foam there and be ok?
If so how far (top/bottom) should I cover?
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I think perhaps you should consider spending your money on a quality dynamic mic instead of foam. Just put foam out of your mind, k? It's not going to help you. If you want to treat the surfaces you should be looking at rigid fiberglass or rock/mineral wool in the 3.5-8 pcf range. This will give you broadband absorbtion, and you really can't have too much of it.

A quality dynamic will not pick up as much room sound and yet can be a great vocal mic. Think Shure SM7B and the Electrovoice RE-20.
 
I have an MXL 3000 condenser mic already
No way to make it work?

And I was told mineral wool is better than the foam you can buy...
True? I'm not looking to have a professional quality of recordings, just good enough. Mostly hand claps, and shakers other battery percussion is going to be recorded (and re-sampled/EQd). Occasional male vocals no singing or anything..
 
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Th3Loni0us said:
I have an MXL 3000 condenser mic already
No way to make it work?

And I was told mineral wool is better than the foam you can buy...
True? I'm not looking to have a professional quality of recordings, just good enough. Mostly hand claps, and shakers other battery percussion is going to be recorded (and re-sampled/EQd). Occasional male vocals no singing or anything..
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Mineral wool, if it's heavy enough, will get you where you want to go. The problem with it is that it's still pretty fluffy and therefore harder to work with. I used it to good effect making Superchunks (search for it). Way better than foam.

As far as your MXL goes, try it and see how you like it.
 
I think it's worth keeping in mind that this is the Home Recording forum not the "remodel your rooms at great expense to sound like a pro studio" forum.
 
elegantmistake said:
I think it's worth keeping in mind that this is the Home Recording forum not the "remodel your rooms at great expense to sound like a pro studio" forum.
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Oh give me a break with that old argument that's been put to rest a long time ago.:rolleyes:

Most "home" recordists still want to get the best possible sound out of their recordings or else they wouldn't be here asking questions on how to get the best possible sound out of their recordings. Nobody's telling anyone to spend 1000's of dollars, but you can't fight science. Doing something that will make your recordings sound worse under the excuse of "it's only home recording" is pure bullshit and completely stupid, which is probably why you advocate it.
 
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elegantmistake said:
I think it's worth keeping in mind that this is the Home Recording forum not the "remodel your rooms at great expense to sound like a pro studio" forum.
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I'm not going to give anybody bad advice even if you don't approve, elegantmistake. OP is free to ignore all the advice in the world.
 
This is just like the "vocal booth" thread...

Some people really do try to give a cost-effective method of dealing with whatever conditions currently exist.

But there are others here who basically say, "you're such a f*ckup; you must have a room of X size and use this kind of acoustic treatment or you might as well just give up".

This is a pretty diverse group here. There are some who either have very lucrative day jobs or wealthy parents or another large amount of disposible income and can build/remodel rooms and buy Grace preamps without even thinking about it.

There's also your average guy with a decent income or pension who can squeeze out a few bucks a month to spend on their hobby, and who have a basement large enough to make a decent studio in.

We've also got the high school kids who've been saving their burger-flipping money for three months to buy an MXL condenser and are trying to record in their 10 x 9 bedroom.

And we have to provide answers for everyone here...

May I suggest that if you don't have an answer for a particular situation that you just stay off the thread with your negative comments. Let those who are trying to help people work with what they've got provide their suggestions or brainstorming.

While most of us would really like to have an acoustically perfect studio filled with top-of-the-line gear, most of us don't yet have it. And I would submit that the person who learns how to make decent recordings with crappy equipment in lousy rooms will end up being a better engineer than the guy who has perfect everything to start with...
 
bdenton said:
May I suggest that if you don't have an answer for a particular situation that you just stay off the thread with your negative comments. Let those who are trying to help people work with what they've got provide their suggestions or brainstorming.
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I hate to break it to you...but if everyone with what you perceive as "negative" answers stayed off this thread...there wouldn't be any realistic responses.
I don't even see that you provided any specific solution/help to the OP...so does that mean you too should stay off the thread?


:D


The biggest problem with your perspective and that of a lot of newbs who cry about not having the money and not wanting to go "pro" setup is that you've lost touch with physics, acoustics and reality.
Not having a big budget and space to do things the right way doesn't change the laws of physics, acoustics and the reality that a small closet, stuffed with foam is going to sound like shit.
Not sure why you keep wanting to argue against that and basically lead newbs down a bad path???

Hey...if people say, I don't care if it sounds like shit, I just want to stuff my closet with foam anyway and record in there, and is that OK to do?

The answer is YES. ;)
 
bdenton said:
This is just like the "vocal booth" thread...

Some people really do try to give a cost-effective method of dealing with whatever conditions currently exist.

But there are others here who basically say, "you're such a f*ckup; you must have a room of X size and use this kind of acoustic treatment or you might as well just give up".

This is a pretty diverse group here. There are some who either have very lucrative day jobs or wealthy parents or another large amount of disposible income and can build/remodel rooms and buy Grace preamps without even thinking about it.

There's also your average guy with a decent income or pension who can squeeze out a few bucks a month to spend on their hobby, and who have a basement large enough to make a decent studio in.

We've also got the high school kids who've been saving their burger-flipping money for three months to buy an MXL condenser and are trying to record in their 10 x 9 bedroom.

And we have to provide answers for everyone here...

May I suggest that if you don't have an answer for a particular situation that you just stay off the thread with your negative comments. Let those who are trying to help people work with what they've got provide their suggestions or brainstorming.

While most of us would really like to have an acoustically perfect studio filled with top-of-the-line gear, most of us don't yet have it. And I would submit that the person who learns how to make decent recordings with crappy equipment in lousy rooms will end up being a better engineer than the guy who has perfect everything to start with...
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What a pile of worthless bullshit.

Let' all keep giving shitty advice that won't help anyone, just so that people like this can have something to whine about. Nobody said anyone has to spend money on anything. The fact is, a vocal booth is a horrible idea unless it's the size of most people's recording area. Period.

And like Miroslov said, what the hell "good advice" have you given, other than whining about everyone that DID give useful advice?

Your crying is getting old and really annoying. Grow up already.
 
I don't even see that you provided any specific solution/help to the OP...so does that mean you too should stay off the thread?

No, because I'm not being negative; I'm trying to encourage others not to be. I offer no "specific solution/help" because I don't have sufficient knowledge to do so, and while I sometimes slip up, I try to make it a practice to not talk out my ass. But I have heard some fairly decent recordings that have come out of some pretty crappy spaces, so I know it can be done.

The biggest problem with your perspective and that of a lot of newbs who cry about not having the money and not wanting to go "pro" setup is that you've lost touch with physics, acoustics and reality.

Let's see...I'm 61 and I've been playing and recording off and on since I was 15. If that makes me a "newb" I'd say probably 98% of the other folks here are too...:D

"you've lost touch with physics, acoustics and reality"...maybe so...but perhaps they aren't as important as some of the "experts" here would have us believe.

You know, the guys who say the only thing worse than foam is egg crates. Well...

This studio, known as Florence Alabama Music Enterprises, or Fame, seemed to be doomed to destruction from the beginning. They set up shop in a small room above a drugstore. They stapled egg cartons to the walls of their studio for sound proofing, found old carpet for the floors, and used drapes for decoration.

The Sound of the Shoals - Part 3 - The Birth of Rock and Roll and Rhythm and Blues

I assume you've heard of Rick Hall's Fame Studios...

Then there's this...

The studio walls and ceiling are covered in egg cartons. While it may be low-tech, it does the trick.

“I’m using egg crates like we used in the 1950s,” Montgomery said as he shows off the vocal booth, which has a glass front visible from the control room. “We cut a lot of hits with egg crates.”

Legendary Shoals songwriter opening recording studio - Decaturdaily.com

If you're not familiar with Earl "Peanut" Montgomery, look at any one of the 72 George Jones songs he wrote or co-wrote. The article I quoted was written in January 2011; this is a brand-new studio. I think Mr. Montgomery can afford whatever he wants, but he still went with egg crates.

And while it wasn't his studio, even Butch Vig recorded in one...

A non LP single ("Where Are You Gonna Run"/"You're The Lucky One") was followed by a second album, Wildest Dreams, recorded at the 8-track analog "egg cartons on the wall for sound absorption" Smart Studio. Another single, "Mean Old World'/"Walking With An Angel" came out a bit later on...

Before Garbage - Spooner & Fire Town - pre-Garbage without Shirley Manson

I could go on and on, but I think I have made my point...:D
 
bdenton said:
I could go on and on, but I think I have made my point...:D
Click to expand...

:laughings:

No you haven't.

"They stapled egg cartons to the walls of their studio for sound proofing" - good luck with that, 'cuz it won't even soundproof against chicken farts. ;)

And…"newbs" isn't about age or how long you have been playing on/off...it's about not knowing more specific answers pertaining to recording (at least on these forums). In your case, you say that "I offer no "specific solution/help" because I don't have sufficient knowledge to do so"...so that makes you a newb when those specifics are being discussed.
What's becoming irritating is that you know that you have no answers here, but because you don't like the realistic answers being given by some guys who run mastering studios and who build acoustic products, etc...your reaction is to reject all that as "negative" information, just because it demands some understanding of physics, acoustic and reality.

Honestly (and don't take this as some personal dig)...if anyone should stay out of these types of discussions, it should be you, instead of you telling the folks that are in the know, to stay out.
Since you have some 40+ years experience playing and recording on/off...why not focus on the areas you ARE well versed in? You seem to be really stuck on the whole booth/foam/closet thing for some reason…? :)

I'm no acoustics expert...but like many other here, I've been down the foam/closet path and I know there's no easy/secret way to make that work well.
It's not like people are refusing to help a guy out and we're all fixated with large expensive studio spaces..... :rolleyes:
 
Oh...and while it may be true that some decent recordings have been done in shitty spaces...
...is that really the best advice?

Will it really make you a better engineer to learn in a shitty recording space...
...or that you apply some common sense and a little effort (and a few $$$) to turn a shitty space into something more ueasable and then learn to record in there...?

Think about that....
 
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