Need advice on my room treatment plan (Poor room)

A

adam125

New member
Hi,

I have a bad room to mix my music in, it's 14 square meters and it's square. I will do the main part of the mixing on my Sennheisers 560s and will try to complement buying a pair of Neumann ndh20 headphones (Good complement you think?). Now I plan on measuring my desk in the middle to each of the walls, with two monitor stands a bit away from the walls, and then going to buy a set of active auratone 5c speakers. I've read in a book that in a smaller room those small 5c speakers will give me a better understanding of the mid, without too many phasing issues so I can focus on low and highs more on headphones. I will also listen to low volumes especially on the monitors.

I have a thick carpet, I will focus on getting bass traps in the corner of the room, and surround the monitors with some creative room treatment. Sidenote: I was also wondering why it's a bad idea to completely kill the room of if it's already poor? Why not just deaden the room sound completely to try to get the sound of the monitors?

Anyways, I'm aware that the room situation is not ultimate, I was just wondering (regarding the brief plan I've just laid out) if people on this forum think I'm thinking things through correctly/what would you do/manage differently? (A lot and a lot of questions here, but also, anyone who knows if it's worth it to go for Sonarworks reference 4 studio edition?)

Thanks in advance/Adam
 
Your room is about 1' (foot) bigger dimensions than my square (11'x11') room. I have put a fair amount of treatment in the room and it works well for mixing (IMHO), though my failing ears now mean that probably is lost money :). C'est la vie..

ANYWAY, I would spend money on good full-range monitors, because the highs are not going to be as big of a problem, and let's face it, in that price range, without a sub, you're not getting massive bass, and good trapping in the corners behind you probably is going to handle a lot of issues. (I have 3 corners trapped). I'd make sure to get good, full-range treatment on the walls at "first reflection points" so your [speaker] monitors sound, as it reaches your ears, is not battling those reflections, which will be among those with the most energy, and likely to create comb-filtering issues. If your speakers have rear ports, you should also have treatment behind them, and I don't think a "cloud" in a similar "first-reflection" location (overhead) is wasted money - I have both, but the cloud is probably least important if you have heavy carpet (I have just a thin Dhurrie over "pergo"/laminate).

Can't comment on the Neumann's. They have very good reviews, but if you have speakers, I don't know that you need overkill on closed-back headphones. That's money that could go to treatment, or maybe slightly better monitors, IMHO. I have a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770s (250Ω) that I've had for years, and replaced pads and all (reasonably priced from Beyerdynamic - do not get 3rd party). Even Sony 7506 are good for testing your mixes, which is most of what you probably want to do with closed-back cans, besides tracking. Just my $.02.

Good luck!
 
keith.rogers said:
Your room is about 1' (foot) bigger dimensions than my square (11'x11') room. I have put a fair amount of treatment in the room and it works well for mixing (IMHO), though my failing ears now mean that probably is lost money :). C'est la vie..

ANYWAY, I would spend money on good full-range monitors, because the highs are not going to be as big of a problem, and let's face it, in that price range, without a sub, you're not getting massive bass, and good trapping in the corners behind you probably is going to handle a lot of issues. (I have 3 corners trapped). I'd make sure to get good, full-range treatment on the walls at "first reflection points" so your [speaker] monitors sound, as it reaches your ears, is not battling those reflections, which will be among those with the most energy, and likely to create comb-filtering issues. If your speakers have rear ports, you should also have treatment behind them, and I don't think a "cloud" in a similar "first-reflection" location (overhead) is wasted money - I have both, but the cloud is probably least important if you have heavy carpet (I have just a thin Dhurrie over "pergo"/laminate).

Can't comment on the Neumann's. They have very good reviews, but if you have speakers, I don't know that you need overkill on closed-back headphones. That's money that could go to treatment, or maybe slightly better monitors, IMHO. I have a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770s (250Ω) that I've had for years, and replaced pads and all (reasonably priced from Beyerdynamic - do not get 3rd party). Even Sony 7506 are good for testing your mixes, which is most of what you probably want to do with closed-back cans, besides tracking. Just my $.02.

Good luck!
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Thank you so much, after a bit of of further research I've also come to the conclusion to get full range speakers. (Might go for the Kali audio in-5s). Nice to see someone reaffirming that choice. Nice feedback on the room and agree that I should spend some money on room treatment so the monitors actually live up to their value in a sense. In one of my corners behind me I have a pretty big clothing hanger with around 30 shirts with three pretty bulky cloth storage baskets underneath. Do you think that would work on that side of the room with maybe some overhead complement isolation, or might it be important for both corners to have similar kind of isolation/volume to it?

Also been looking a bit into those classic Sony:s as well, sounds logical to maybe not overspend even if it's easy to get lost in gear at times.

Cheers, Adam
 
I agree with Keith regarding spending the money on room treatment and monitors. The Kalis are well thought of. As to your 'pile of clothes' - you need to make things as symmetrical as possible, in the room, so all that in corner, and something different for treatment in the opposite corner is not ideal.
 
Yeah, bass traps are defined by their *mass* and hanging clothes (or foam) are not really going to trap bass, because though we hear it (relatively) at the same level as other frequencies, it has a lot more energy, i.e., so we *can* hear (and feel) it. But, like most home recorders, compromises have to be made, and I have one corner with a door, so it can't have a trap in it. (They tend to not be that moveable, even small-ish ones, because of height/weight.) Do your best. Because of the standing waves problem and the square room, the corners are a focus of pairs of waves from both sides in the same frequencies, so you really don't want a pair of adjacent corners to go without good trapping (IMO). Of course there are the ceiling/floor/wall (join) areas, too, but the small size of the room and space taken up, at least for me, meant I just had to let that go and focus on reflection points for the spot where I'm seated in front of the monitors.

I just found the pamphlet for my set of Sony MDR-V6 cans - they're ancient, MIJ, probably a predecessor or consumer version of the 7506. The booklet was copyrighted 1985, so I've probably had them 30+ years now :). I've replaced the pads "a few" times (the "pleather" disintegrates), but the last time I got velour, like are on the Beyerdynamics. Dreamy...
 
My room is not properly treated but because of all of the "stuff" in the room there is not much noticeable reflection. That said I hear the room when I'm recording more than when I'm mixing. Just my assumption, but I think it has to do with the mic picking up whatever reflections are bouncing around in the room and I can adjust for that by aiming the mic in different directions. Low tech but it does work. When I mix I triangulate as close as I can with the monitors to lower the percentage of the room that I hear. I also have a sub that I turn on and off because it exposes low frequencies that I would otherwise not know exist.
 
keith.rogers said:
I just found the pamphlet for my set of Sony MDR-V6 cans - they're ancient, MIJ, probably a predecessor or consumer version of the 7506. The booklet was copyrighted 1985, so I've probably had them 30+ years now :). I've replaced the pads "a few" times (the "pleather" disintegrates), but the last time I got velour, like are on the Beyerdynamics. Dreamy...
Click to expand...
Haha, I also have MDRV6's that I bought in the early 90's and I replaced the pads years ago with actual Beyerdynamic pads and they are excellent!
 
My room is 14 ft x 10 ft with closets protruding into the space at both corners of one 10 ft end. When I record my vocal or acoustic guitar, I open one door about 45° and place my AT2020 in the center of the arc with the back facing the corner. Outside of a small slab of Rockwool leaning against the wall near the opposite corner which I use to block out the window opening for noise control, the only deadening or treatment is the short pile carpeting. I don't have a noticeable problem with room reflections as far as recording goes, but mixing off monitors in this situation would not go well, I suspect.

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