Question about DA/AD Converters...

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gene12586

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So I've been reading a lot of websites saying that a crucial element in the recording chain is the DA/AD converter. Why couldn't you just go through the audio interface...doesn't that do the same job?.... From what I understand so far the signal is as follows.....

Microphone/Guitar/etc.>>>Preamp>>>A-D Conversion>>>Audio Interface>>>Computer sequencer>>D-A Conversion>>>Monitoring system

Is that right? Also, it's just one converter box that does both conversions or do I need two separate boxes (one for A-D and the other for D-A)?
 
gene12586 said:
So I've been reading a lot of websites saying that a crucial element in the recording chain is the DA/AD converter. Why couldn't you just go through the audio interface...doesn't that do the same job?.... From what I understand so far the signal is as follows.....

Microphone/Guitar/etc.>>>Preamp>>>A-D Conversion>>>Audio Interface>>>Computer sequencer>>D-A Conversion>>>Monitoring system

Is that right? Also, it's just one converter box that does both conversions or do I need two separate boxes (one for A-D and the other for D-A)?
Click to expand...

Any audio interface is going to have the digital converters ( AD-DA ) built in and some even have digital ins and outs to handle dedicated outboard converters . Boutique mic preamps may have separate digital outs and running this connection into the digital in on your interface will bypass the preamp section of the interface.

Gear snobs go on about high end dedicated AD-DA's blah blah....maybe once it was important..not so much these days. The costs are coming down so fast.

This unit has very very high standard AD-DA's and its only about $200

Mackie Blackjack Onyx with Cirrus Logic converters.
 
Cool...What do you think of the converters and preamps on the MOTU896mk3? That one looks great... Do you think I would need stand alone preamps or converters with this interface?
 
gene12586 said:
Cool...What do you think of the converters and preamps on the MOTU896mk3? That one looks great... Do you think I would need stand alone preamps or converters with this interface?
Click to expand...

The AD-DA's included in the unit are reflected in the price, if the unit is expensive, its going to have high end converters. There are only a few converter manufacturers. Those Cirrus Logic ones I referenced in the prior post are top notch.

You could buy the MOTU unit and find it has the same converters as a unit from another brand. I dont know about the preamps in the MOTU, but once again the quality is usually reflected in the price. I am sure you will be fine.

What is your recording and listening environment like ? THAT is crucial.
 
The environment is not a great one for recording. Smallish basement room, not a perfect rectangle...more like an L shape....quiet room tho, so who knows... also the option of the basement living area, it's large enough, but so many little corridors and spaces that I imagine wouldn't make for very good reflection...and also a staircase that leads upstairs, so would have to board up that hole while recording....

Actually on that note.... I'm going to attach some pictures of the two areas...Can you tell me if you think adding some bass traps or other treatment to either room could help me get a decent enough sound?
 
n61 ... PX0214.jpg
 
Well, I think there is an unfortunate need here for a reality check. Not unlike dealing with mic or preamps, we can be sucked in by jealousy and advertising hype. Yes sir, you can buy a $100 mic that is every bit as good as a Neumann or Brauner (you can't). You can buy a preamp for $129 that's just as good as an Avalon, Pendulum, D.W. Fearn or a John Hardy (you can't). Sure, the A-D convertor in my M-Audio Fast Track does the same thing as an Apogee, Burl Audio, Crane Song, JCF Audio, Lynx, Prism Dream, Weiss, Z-systems, or even a Lucid. (it doesn't). Note that any of the listed A-D converters above cost *thousands*, except the Lucid, which is hundreds. Yeah, and your Ford Focus does the same thing as a Porsche or a Ferrari. It starts, it drives. Yeah sure. As in car racing, in pro audio, 90% of the money is spent on the last 10% of performance. While the introduction of cheaper recording gear has made it possible to do a lot more with a lot less money, the belief that all that high-end boutique recording gear produces the same results as prosumer gear is just wishful thinking. Yup, the cheap stuff is better than it used to be, and the expensive stuff is almost always expensive for a reason, and better. Whether you want to or are able to pay through the nose for that 10% of performance is something everyone has to decide for themselves, based on their priorities, and their budget. You have to use cheap gear, because it's what you can afford? I'm with you. I live in the real world also. You think that stuff is as good as top shelf professional gear? Don't kid yourself.-Richie
 
Richard Monroe said:
Well, I think there is an unfortunate need here for a reality check. Not unlike dealing with mic or preamps, we can be sucked in by jealousy and advertising hype. Yes sir, you can buy a $100 mic that is every bit as good as a Neumann or Brauner (you can't). You can buy a preamp for $129 that's just as good as an Avalon, Pendulum, D.W. Fearn or a John Hardy (you can't). Sure, the A-D convertor in my M-Audio Fast Track does the same thing as an Apogee, Burl Audio, Crane Song, JCF Audio, Lynx, Prism Dream, Weiss, Z-systems, or even a Lucid. (it doesn't). Note that any of the listed A-D converters above cost *thousands*, except the Lucid, which is hundreds. Yeah, and your Ford Focus does the same thing as a Porsche or a Ferrari. It starts, it drives. Yeah sure. As in car racing, in pro audio, 90% of the money is spent on the last 10% of performance. While the introduction of cheaper recording gear has made it possible to do a lot more with a lot less money, the belief that all that high-end boutique recording gear produces the same results as prosumer gear is just wishful thinking. Yup, the cheap stuff is better than it used to be, and the expensive stuff is almost always expensive for a reason, and better. Whether you want to or are able to pay through the nose for that 10% of performance is something everyone has to decide for themselves, based on their priorities, and their budget. You have to use cheap gear, because it's what you can afford? I'm with you. I live in the real world also. You think that stuff is as good as top shelf professional gear? Don't kid yourself.-Richie
Click to expand...


Its not 10 years ago. Components have come down in price. A washing machine no longer costs a quarter of a years pay.


Anything wrong with that $1500 Motu the OP posted ?

Anything wrong with those Cirrus Logic converters I linked to ?
 
You could buy the MOTU unit and find it has the same converters as a unit from another brand.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to minimize the statement as stated, but *the chip* is a TINY, tiny little part of the circuitry itself. An AD converter is an analog device up to where that chip digitizes the signal. A DA converter is an analog device once the signal exits the converter. You can have the exact same chip in 20 different boxes and get 20 boxes that have 20 different levels of quality and performance.
What is your recording and listening environment like ? THAT is crucial.
Click to expand...
Can't agree more there -- Monitoring and the space itself. EVERYTHING ELSE is secondary (by a long shot).
 
Massive Master said:
I'm not trying to minimize the statement as stated, but *the chip* is a TINY, tiny little part of the circuitry itself. An AD converter is an analog device up to where that chip digitizes the signal. A DA converter is an analog device once the signal exits the converter. You can have the exact same chip in 20 different boxes and get 20 boxes that have 20 different levels of quality and performance.
Click to expand...

Okie doke, well hopefully the level circuitry design and construction is reflected in the price. I am hoping it will enable Release/CD quality recordings on that MOTU the op commented on.
 
Hey, cfox (or any1 else who wants to answer) btw, you didn't answer one of my initial questions:

Is it just one converter box that does both conversions or do I need two separate boxes (one for A-D and the other for D-A)?

(I'm prob. not even getting them, but just out of curiosity)
 
Either or both
An audio interface will generally do AD & DA you can buy stand alone AD and stand alone DA or combined boxes, budget and preference will dictate what you can get

if you are not already completely happy with room treatment, mics, pres, & monitors then converters shouldn't be on your radar yet

Since it appears you are in an untreated space at present, converters probably shouldn't be your primary concern. The ones in an audio interface are adequate until everything in the recording chain and the room itself are in the high quality range
 
good point bristol. happy w/ mics, happy, w/ monitors..... about to buy some nice pres....... will focus on room treatment now
 
Bristol Posse said:
Either or both
An audio interface will generally do AD & DA you can buy stand alone AD and stand alone DA or combined boxes, budget and preference will dictate what you can get

if you are not already completely happy with room treatment, mics, pres, & monitors then converters shouldn't be on your radar yet

Since it appears you are in an untreated space at present, converters probably shouldn't be your primary concern. The ones in an audio interface are adequate until everything in the recording chain and the room itself are in the high quality range
Click to expand...

^^What he said and I did mention that an audio interface will have the AD-DA's combined. This would strongly suggest that even dedicated AD-DA boxes are available. ;)
 
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