Piano and Vocals, mic placement

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Common Dreads

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Hey guys, I am recording a female pianist/vocalist who will be singing and playing at the same time. I know this is not optimal but her songs require tempo changes for expression which rules out the possibility of a click track which will make it difficult for her to sing separately in time. I have No shortage of inputs and I have around 8 SM57's an SM58 and an AKG Perception.

Last time i tried to record it sounded great on my monitor speakers, laptop speakers and my Ipod but when I tried it on a home stereo system the boosted low end revealed the clunking of the keys as she played. A similar result occurred in a car speaker system. Last time I placed 1 SM57 towards each end of the piano around 40cm above the keys. Please help >.<

Oh, by the way it is an upright piano :)
 
Try miking the piano from the back.

Make sure the face of the vocal mike is towards the singer with the piano at its back.

Other than that . . . clunking is a part of playing the piano, so I would (personally) not be too fussed about it.
 
The piano does not belong to me and It is backed up against a wall and I am not sure if the owner would be willing to let me move it. Is there any other possible way to mic it? If there is any way to convert my wav file to an MP3 I can upload it so that you can have a listen.
 
Armistice said:
What type of piano?
Click to expand...

Ah.. I see you covered that... upright. My bad... didn't read.

Ever hear any of the later Tom Waits recordings of an upright piano? You can hear everything, including the pedal squeaking, the notes thumping, roosters crowing in the backyard... but I guess your're not after that type of ambience! :D
 
The thumping sounded quite unnatural, I was going for a much softer, folkier sound but the bass enhancement tore my mix to shreds. Guess this is the only way you learn eh?

But as I said I am not able to move the piano as it doesn't belong to me.
 
Fair enough... I was thinking originally it was a grand-style and probably on wheels, but uprights often aren't so it's probably a bit of a task anyway.

There are any number of conversion programs to get from WAV to MP3 - what did you create the WAV on?

I don't record on PC so it's not really my thing but when I do need to convert I use Audacity with LIME encoder... works fine, but there are other options...
 
I don't record on a PC either, I use a Mac with Protools LE
 
First thing you need to do is to get the piano un-parallel with the back wall. We're not talking a great amount of movement, just pull one side out just enough so you have at least a good 16 degree angle between the piano and wall. This will help minimize standing waves from the piano,

Second thing I'd do is remove the kick panel from the front of the piano underneath the keyboard. Nothing to worry about, it's made to be removed for tuning purposes. Then mic the strings there.

Third thing I'd do is to make sure the bass boost in your playback isn't caused by bad bass modality from your room at your mix position; i.e. if you are sitting in a bass null when you mix, you'll wind up over-compensating the bass to make it sound "right" when you mix, but will come out too bass heavy when you play it back in the real wold. This is easily the most common problem with most amateur mix setups.

G.
 
Thats a good point Glen, I am in a relatively small room while mixing. Is there any way that I can test if I am in a bass null?
 
Common Dreads said:
Thats a good point Glen, I am in a relatively small room while mixing. Is there any way that I can test if I am in a bass null?
Click to expand...
Probably the easiest way would be to put on a known mix (it could even be a commercial CD, or one of your own) that has solid bass frequencies represented on it, play it, and move around the room and see how the bass changes in sound. Listen carefully. Also, if your mix position is crammed into a corner of the room, that's probably going to mess with your bass response in a less-than-perfectly-predictable way.

But really, if you can regularly and predictably mix so that the bass sounds "right" at your mix desk but winds up sounding ultra bass heavy everywhere else, that's probably a dead giveaway that you're mixing in a null. And vice versa; if a "good" mix at your desk sounds bass anemic everywhere else, you're probably mixing in a bass crest. This ignores any problems you may have with the response of the loudspeakers themselves, of course.

G.
 
Common Dreads said:
I don't record on a PC either, I use a Mac with Protools LE
Click to expand...


PC = personal computer.

I know everyone equates PCs with Microsoft, but that's not what the term originally meant.

A Mac is a personal computer, although I get what you mean

I was pointing out that as I don't record to a (insert brand/software/operating system) here, I don't use recording software much, so I don't know whether they do MP3 conversions.

One would imagine they would.
 
Lots of different ways to mic a piano...your choice would be heavily affected by whether you are recording in a nice sounding room or not?
 
what's the difference between micing the piano from underneath (i never thought about doing this before) and from the top with the lid open?

Ofcourse, I know the sound...
 
Could you even do that with an upright? Not sure where you'd put the mics... aren't they all boxed in underneath, with only the lid at the top openable?

I imagine you'd pick up a bit more pedal if you were using them/it - they're rarely silent..
 
When you come right down to it ......a piano is a percussion instrument. :rolleyes:
And recording the upright piano from the sound board in the back is the way to go. ;)





:cool:
 
I've always recorded from the top with the lid open - is the back standard? (on up rights)
 
Opivy said:
I've always recorded from the top with the lid open - is the back standard? (on up rights)
Click to expand...
I usually don't like either one of those positions - though the soundboard one is the most common, probably. I prefer to record off the front of the strings. Remove the front kickpanel and mic the folded harp directly.

G.
 
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