How to promote the sale of bass lines and loops

[unaufadox]

Hi all

The Short Version
I am a Bass Guitar player who creates bass loops and lines for producers to download and add to their tracks. I am selling these loops however, after much activity to promote and sell (even giving them away for a time), I have not managed to get my loops into many producers projects, let alone make many sales.

I record for ten minutes at a time, so producers have a large sample pool to cut, edit, chop, paste, twist and do what ever they like to end up with a unique result. Perhaps this is the issue? It's not the conventional 16 bar drag and drop loop and the need to edit audio could be off-putting? I thought this would be AWESOME! Finally, a set of slightly varying loops which would be dynamic enough to keep a track interesting from beginning to end....

More Details
I went live on YouTube every week day for 95 episodes (more or less consecutively) posted to TikTok, FaceBook (groups and my profile) and joined a few groups on Discord all to promote, meet people and sell my loops. 95 episodes is over 3 months of this consistent activity but, results were not favourable and I could not see any growth or momentum.

I then developed a wrist injury so I had to stop. I am healing from it now and plan to get back going live and sharing asap.

Does anyone have any tips for me to pursue? I did think about joining the big loop giants, but my loops are looser than those guys want. My loops move around the grid, dynamically - like a human would play ! That said, my loops work well with the tempos and key signatures they are recorded to.

Any help would be appreciated because I am at a loss at the moment....

 

[Random dude]

You should make yourself available on https://www.fiverr.com/

It seems to work well for a lot of people. It's a pretty big jungle there though, so don't get discouraged if you don't get a lot of attention at first. But if you have something good and maybe a little different than what everyone else offers, you'll get attention which will lead to sales.

 

[unaufadox]

Hey @Random dude thanks for the response. I am on fiverr and have had nothing since I joined HOWEVER I am not on there as a loop seller, but as a bassist who can 'record amazing bass lines for your track !' etc etc - might be worth a refresh though. Thanks for the tip

 

[Random dude]

The same thing happened to me with my "I will record amazing drum tracks for you".

That's why I was saying it's a big jungle out there. I got literally nothing. But I also wasn't doing anything different than a million other drummers on there. I thought maybe offering bass loops would give you a little edge since I think it's a little less common than just offering to play tracks for people.

Good luck, brother. It's not easy, that's for sure.

 

[TalismanRich]

Others may have a different idea, but buying bass loops to build songs is the last thing I would do. The only reason that I've used drum patterns is because I'm not a drummer, and didn't have easy access to a drummer. I bought an SR18, and it's has ok sounds, but I find the loops to be stifling. MTPDK has lots of patterns and gives a better result since it can be easily edited, but it's still not the same as the real thing. At least with drums loops, you don't have to worry about keys. Bass guitar loops would be worse, picking though minor / major keys. It's easier to just pickup a bass for a song.

Then again, I'm old school. I don't work by stringing "beats" together. I would think your work on fiverr would hold more promise, but it helps if you have some work to make you stand out from the crowd. It's like trying to break through by posting a song on Youtube. For every Rich Men North Or Richmond, there are 100,000 unknown songs with 37 views.

Its funny how things can take a turn, though. I was watching a video about having a song mastered by 5 different engineers. The one chosen as best (even over Abbey Road Studios) was by a guy on fiverr who charged $21. After that video he's been inundated with requests to master songs by others.

So, I guess the moral of the story is to persevere. Or as the AI bot said in another thread, Network. Name recognition is important, and the more you are out there, the more your name will be seen.

 

[Random dude]

How was that helpful? LOL.

I don't use loops either. But many people do. He's asking how he can promote what he does. He wasn't taking a poll/opinions on who does or doesn't use loops. Not sure what your point is as far as his query is concerned.

 

[unaufadox]

The same thing happened to me with my "I will record amazing drum tracks for you".

That's why I was saying it's a big jungle out there. I got literally nothing. But I also wasn't doing anything different than a million other drummers on there. I thought maybe offering bass loops would give you a little edge since I think it's a little less common just offering to play tracks for people.

Good luck, brother. It's not easy, that's for sure.

Yea great tip on the doing something different....I am crafting a new gig now. Let's see where it goes appreciate the support

 

[unaufadox]

Others may have a different idea, but buying bass loops to build songs is the last thing I would do. The only reason that I've used drum patterns is because I'm not a drummer, and didn't have easy access to a drummer. I bought an SR18, and it's has ok sounds, but I find the loops to be stifling. MTPDK has lots of patterns and gives a better result since it can be easily edited, but it's still not the same as the real thing. At least with drums loops, you don't have to worry about keys. Bass guitar loops would be worse, picking though minor / major keys. It's easier to just pickup a bass for a song.

Then again, I'm old school. I don't work by stringing "beats" together. I would think your work on fiverr would hold more promise, but it helps if you have some work to make you stand out from the crowd. It's like trying to break through by posting a song on Youtube. For every Rich Men North Or Richmond, there are 100,000 unknown songs with 37 views.

Its funny how things can take a turn, though. I was watching a video about having a song mastered by 5 different engineers. The one chosen as best (even over Abbey Road Studios) was by a guy on fiverr who charged $21. After that video he's been inundated with requests to master songs by others.

So, I guess the moral of the story is to persevere. Or as the AI bot said in another thread, Network. Name recognition is important, and the more you are out there, the more your name will be seen.

Thanks for the support dude

 

[TalismanRich]

How was that helpful? LOL.

I don't use loops either. But many people do. He's asking how he can promote what he does. He wasn't taking a poll/opinions on who does or doesn't use loops. Not sure what your point is as far as his query is concerned.

I'm not trying to be condescending.

I just don't think loops are as big of a market as people think. I see lots of posts of people who are trying to sell their latest beats. But I seriously doubt that there are many successful artists who are buying them to make commercially released music. Those people are creating their own stuff. Realistically, how many beats do you think are sold to successful artists? How many do you need to sell to be successful? 50? 100? How much do you charge? £2 or 3? I've checked out unaufadox's website and Youtube channel. He's put a lot of work into this project, but it isn't hitting the bar. (BTW, I was unable to download the "free" files on the website to even see what they were like).

I think using fiverr to get project work might a more viable option? He obviously knows how to play, so for someone who needs a bass for an original song, this is a workable solution. Trying get 10 jobs at 10 or 20 quid a pop seems a more realistic and profitable path. Doing colaboratives can help. People have a better chance of hearing what yo can do.

Realistically, I have a drummer/bass playing friend in Florida and he makes far more as a substitute drummer than you might think. That leads to him being asked to join groups, which he's done a couple of times in the past several years. He's good at learning songs, and he's killer at a jam session. When I visited him a few months back, we ended up at a biker bar, where he sat in for a half dozen songs or more. He made more connections and got some jobs playing. They paid much more that $5 a pop, more like a $100 or $150 a night. Then they learn he can play bass (he's got about 4 or 5), and that opens more doors.

So the question is what is the goal? Is it to make some spare money? Then you need to look at the time you're investing to see if it's worthwhile. There are almost 100 videos and they appear to be about 45minutes long. That's a lot of time spent. I just question if this is the proper path. About the only way I see to drive traffic is to post on as many forums as possible that cater to that clientele like Future Producers and Ill Muzik.

I'm curious to hear if he is actively playing live. If not, go to a few open mic/jam sessions and find people to work with. The more people that know your skills and name, the better.

 

[Random dude]

I'm not trying to be condescending.

To be honest, I was surprised at your post because you never come off negative or condescending. Maybe the way you worded it with "I would never use loops" seemed a bit narrow minded and not very supportive. It's all good. My interpretation might be the problem. No big deal either way.

I just don't think loops are as big of a market as people think.

I don't know how big a market it is, or how big people think it is. But I think a lot of people use loops for whatever instrument they don't play. Like, a lot of guitar players will use drum loops for their tunes because they don't know how to play drums. And usually, if someone can't play, that probably means they're not good at programming convincing parts either. For those people, chopping up loops is a good option.

There's only one way to find out.

 

[TalismanRich]

RD, I think your Drum Covers posts would be valuable for someone looking for a drummer. I could use a dummy drum track or click, and do the basic tracks, send you the stems, and you send back a multitrack or stereo mixed drum track ( or both). That would be no different than the way a lot of groups worked especially in the pandemic days.

 

[Random dude]

RD, I think your Drum Covers posts would be valuable for someone looking for a drummer. I could use a dummy drum track or click, and do the basic tracks, send you the stems, and you send back a multitrack or stereo mixed drum track ( or both). That would be no different than the way a lot of groups worked especially in the pandemic days.

Yes. I've done many many collaborations that way. I ask people to send me a mix of the song on one side and a click (preferably a cowbell playing quarter notes) on the other side. I can then separate them and adjust the click volume to my liking.

 

[unaufadox]

I'm not trying to be condescending.

Appreciate that man. I'm all about positivity.

I just don't think loops are as big of a market as people think. I see lots of posts of people who are trying to sell their latest beats. But I seriously doubt that there are many successful artists who are buying them to make commercially released music. Those people are creating their own stuff. Realistically, how many beats do you think are sold to successful artists? How many do you need to sell to be successful? 50? 100? How much do you charge? £2 or 3? I've checked out unaufadox's website and Youtube channel. He's put a lot of work into this project, but it isn't hitting the bar. (BTW, I was unable to download the "free" files on the website to even see what they were like).

I appreciate you looking into my work. The free loops were a promotional thing which ended. I also changed the name of the channel. I am not going for people who are already a huge success. They'll probably be in a position to hire session musicians. It's cool if they hear my stuff and want to buy but, I am mainly going for the beginner to intermediate producers who are looking to make it - which I am thinking there are plenty of. If Splice and other loop giants can offer loops and be successful, it means there are a lot of these kinds of producers. I do think there is a place for real musicians in the market. Some producers just cannot afford to hire real musicians though. Loops are the next best thing for them and I am happy to accommodate them - especially as it is such a joy to create them.

I think using fiverr to get project work might a more viable option? He obviously knows how to play, so for someone who needs a bass for an original song, this is a workable solution. Trying get 10 jobs at 10 or 20 quid a pop seems a more realistic and profitable path. Doing colaboratives can help. People have a better chance of hearing what yo can do.

I really appreciate this bud. I had reservations about low prices but, higher prices yielded no results so I am open. As I mentioned to RD, I have reworded and reactivated my Fiverr account so we'll see how it goes at this lower price point.

Realistically, I have a drummer/bass playing friend in Florida and he makes far more as a substitute drummer than you might think. That leads to him being asked to join groups, which he's done a couple of times in the past several years. He's good at learning songs, and he's killer at a jam session. When I visited him a few months back, we ended up at a biker bar, where he sat in for a half dozen songs or more. He made more connections and got some jobs playing. They paid much more that $5 a pop, more like a $100 or $150 a night. Then they learn he can play bass (he's got about 4 or 5), and that opens more doors.

I do love a good jam session. It's the most 'alive' I have felt as a bassist/musician. Producing in Logic Pro at home is great but touching people is something else.

I'm curious to hear if he is actively playing live. If not, go to a few open mic/jam sessions and find people to work with. The more people that know your skills and name, the better.

I was playing (jamming) live quite often until I injured my wrist. I've been 'out of the game' since August. No practice. Just sporadic grooves when producing whilst at the back of my mind I know I need to allow myself to heal or visit the chiropractor to reset my wrist bones. It was actually a good thing because I would have been on episode 160 or so of my live stream videos even though they were not going anywhere fast. It's good I had a break to take some time out to address the fact that all of this time is not spreading my work as I want it to, and finding a way to sort that. I am glad I have found myself here and having to speak about all of this.

 

[unaufadox]

I don't know how big a market it is, or how big people think it is. But I think a lot of people use loops for whatever instrument they don't play. Like, a lot of guitar players will use drum loops for their tunes because they don't know how to play drums. And usually, if someone can't play, that probably means they're not good at programming convincing parts either. For those people, chopping up loops is a good option.

I agree. I am good with bass parts and I have an understanding of theory so I can create chords and chord progressions but, I use a piece of software for the basis of the chords I was using in my videos (Scaler....V1) and for the drum loops I use those in Logic Pro although I change the sounds to those in Kontakt. It worked out quite nicely. I changed the loop pattern in each video, and the pattern and 'drum kit' every six videos to keep it dynamic and inspiring for me to create grooves to. I had a great time. There was no way I wanted to programme different drums every day for the live stream !

 

[Random dude]

Just to clarify, it never even crossed my mind that we were talking about loops or tracks for "successful artists". Quite the opposite. I was thinking along the lines of home recorders.

I've done a lot of tracks for people that I've met online on forums like this. Sometimes for free, but often paid. I had a few people pay me $50-75 a track over the course of a few months for a total of 10-12 tracks. One of them still buys the occasional track off me. An extra $500-750 every few months isn't enough to make a living off, but it's great extra money. I'll take that any day.

 

[unaufadox]

RD, I think your Drum Covers posts would be valuable for someone looking for a drummer.

Agreed. They sound clean and useable. Nice and bright

I could use a dummy drum track or click, and do the basic tracks, send you the stems, and you send back a multitrack or stereo mixed drum track ( or both). That would be no different than the way a lot of groups worked especially in the pandemic days.

sounds like the beginning of a band....potentially....a long distance band perhaps

Yes. I've done many many collaborations that way. I ask people to send me a mix of the song on one side and a click (preferably a cowbell playing quarter notes) on the other side. I can then separate them and adjust the click volume to mu liking.

Nice. Thanks for both of your contributions to this feed it's much appreciated. I've been in my own bubble with all of this thus far. Head down and knocking out a new chord progression every 6 videos and new drums before each recording. I've got the passion for it now I just need a direction which yields results! It's nice to be outside of my head with all of this.

 

[unaufadox]

Just to clarify, it never even crossed my mind that we were talking about loops or tracks for "successful artists". Quite the opposite. I was thinking along the lines of home recorders.

Yea same. I doubt very much they are looking for loops. Unless they have a relationship in place with someone already.

I've done a lot of tracks for people that I've met online on forums like this. Sometimes for free, but often paid. I had a few people pay me $50-75 a track over the course of a few months for a total of 10-12 tracks. One of them still buys the occasional track off me. An extra $500-750 every few months isn't enough to make a living off, but it's great extra money. I'll take that any day.

I'll take that too ! I'm here for the love of this thing but I appreciate that what we do has tremendous value. The hours we put in is no joke at all. It/we deserve to be compensated like any doctor or electrician or plumber or lawyer or or or

 

[rob aylestone]

I suppose the correct marketing strategy is to first identify who your customers actually are, and who they absolutely are not. On youtube, there are often repeated ads that get served to music folk. Theres one where some guy tells you you only need those chords to make your piano tracks sound professional, another that has drum loops, and curiosity made me watch both. I cannot imagine using either, because while they work for a few styles, EDM is a firm aim here, they’re useless for my music, and worse, I think I can do better. This is fine because I don’t think it’s me they’re aimed at, but the other thing is that many people never use the loop based production of any kind, don’t want to, and perhaps don’t even know how it works. As a bass player, I simply can’t grasp how people would take what I play and turn it into loops. Oddly, I was at a wedding last night and clearly 90% of the music I was listening to was looped! Then they played YMCA, and the music changed. I’d seen this topic and tried to work out which were played and which were loops, and figured that loops were a certain age, but also even in that period, only certain genres?

your marketing needs to be aimed solely at those people, it’s wasted anywhere else, like the YouTube ads. Find the people making er, less musician based music and they’ll be the people who will shell out for loop packages. I don’t know how you actually find them, but I guess your aim so far has been the people who wont want your product at any cost. Freebies are also vital, use spitfire audio as an example. Real usable examples, that will be a hook. Spitfire give you genuine free excellent products, that you then want more of. I would never buy a loop package to just experiment with. A free complete one, I might try? That’s the gamble. Like midi tracks. I’ve bought a few to save me time and some were horrible and produced by somebody with zero musical ability. I wasted the money. Others were superb.
best wishes for the project

 

[unaufadox]

I really appreciate your response @rob aylestone. Thanks for taking the time.

I suppose the correct marketing strategy is to first identify who your customers actually are, and who they absolutely are not.

I've struggled with this in all areas of what I have been offering. Like you said, I am not aiming at musicians (unless they really need a bassist and happen to have a track in the exact key and tempo, and just so happen to have the same chord progression I have used) I am going for those who maybe new to the whole thing. I'd like to be one to introduce them to chord progressions if they are not yet familiar. I assume once they have explored and realised the limitations with bass loops, I'll be right there with them to provide more custom bass lines for their projects. But back to not knowing, the joining of forums is a new thing for me so maybe this will be a good way to get some...intel
on the 'who' and 'where' thing.

but the other thing is that many people never use the loop based production of any kind, don’t want to, and perhaps don’t even know how it works. As a bass player, I simply can’t grasp how people would take what I play and turn it into loops. Oddly, I was at a wedding last night and clearly 90% of the music I was listening to was looped! Then they played YMCA, and the music changed. I’d seen this topic and tried to work out which were played and which were loops, and figured that loops were a certain age, but also even in that period, only certain genres?

This ! I agree, some are not interested at all. I wasn't either once I got into things properly but, early on, I did find myself looking for loops. Not bass loops but a synth sound or two. There are so many loop sellers out there I figure the must be a market for it. I did some research on TikTok for a bit and the feedback I got was it is quite a big deal for the younger/newer music producers amongst us. Again, I think they'll get into it and realise there is much more out there, and good old unaufadox (me) will be right there with them.

As Rich mentioned above about with the drum machine he has; it's for those who cannot get access to a real bassist and who cannot play - at all. Even if it's a rough sketch until they are ready to record. My loops are 10 minute recording sessions.10 minutes of a funky funking grove with many variations. I really feel like what's not to love hahaha but of course I am biased, and, I have such a great time recording them so I think why doesn't the whole entire world love my grooves haha !

Freebies are also vital

Thanks for the tip. I was giving away plenty while on the live streams and everywhere I was posting. Couldn't move anything so I cancelled the discount codes when I stopped posting. Maybe I'll add some freebies to my signature here and on other forums. Great tip/reminder. Love Spitfire. Love Pianobook. Love the BBC Discover sounds!

 

[Random dude]

You know, in a way it's funny how we're all (Well, not all of us, but you know....) talking about "nobody uses loops", etc...

Well, rap and hip hop is ALL about loops. While some of us might not like that style of music (I love a lot of it) and some might not even consider it music (YOU try rapping without sounding completely stupid. It takes a lot more talent and rhythm than most non-believers think), it's probably the most popular genre of music these days, like it or not.

So, to say there's no market for it is a little "get off my lawn"-ish. Every rapper out there, of which there are millions, is looking for loops because that's how their music is created.

So, maybe rather than worry about musicians that play some form of rock or pop, expand your horizons by finding out where the hip-hop artists hang out, ask them where they find their loops and go there.

I'm a rocker through and through. But I love early rap. You want to hear some great bass loops/grooves, listen to Snoop's first album "Doggystyle", or Dr. Dre's "The Chronic". They're both on Youtube. I've worn both those albums out. Groove city.