Considering tracking drums to tape

[RawDepth]

I like my computer DAW for ease of editing, but I also would like to take advantage of the natural compression that tape offers for drum tracks.

I am considering buying an 8 track open reel for tracking drums occasionally on some sessions. I suppose I would then have the option of recording (dumping) those tracks into the computer to build upon.

Can anyone make suggestions of an inexpensive 8 track as a starter machine? (Like perhaps under $1000 US) Once I know that I love that method I can always upgrade later to a finer machine.

Also are there any warnings I should know about before I venture into those waters? Thanks.

 

[cjmnash]

i'd look for an otari mx series...there are a lot of mx 5050s out there, typically 1/2" 8 tracks in that price range. they may have some small issues here and there- but overall work well. they're not the sought after "wide track format" such as the 1" 8 track, nor do those decks have a particularly beefy "analog" sound- but they're priced accordingly.

my $.02

chris mara
www.nobraineraudio.com
www.welcometo1979.com

 

[jjones1700]

Before you jump in, there are a couple of caveats when it comes to open reel recording. The biggest obstacle that rears it's ugly head is that you either have to become a technician and learn how to repair your own deck, or have the funds to have it repaired. Otari is the only company that still makes a new open reel deck (albeit it's only a two track mix down deck, that costs as much as a small car). That being said, Otari and Tascam are going to be the two brands that have the best availability of parts, either direct or second hand. You might be able to find a Fostex 8 track machine (R8 is the model, I think) that uses 1/4" tape. The advantage is that 1/4" is a few dollars cheaper than 1/2". The disadvantages are that Fostex machines are a bit harder to find parts for and that if you are really pushing the tape levels, 8 tracks on 1/4" won't sound as good as 8 tracks on 1/2" tape.

My intention isn't to scare you out of it, but to give you a couple of the "gotchas" that sneak up on people who weren't informed of them ahead of time. If you can accept those facts, you will be in for a new addiction. Working with tape is a lost art and for a small group of people (such as ourselves), it's a blast.

I suppose the next thing is that you make sure the heads of the machine are in great shape and that the machine is functional before you buy it. If you can, try to obtain one locally as there have been many stories of decks being destroyed in shipping. However, there have also been a handful of lucky souls who got their machine shipped without so much as a scratch. It's a gamble.

Ok, I could go on for a while about various things, and I'm not near as versed in the tape machines as some of the other guys in here. I'll let the more experienced guys chime in now.

 

[dodgeaspen]

Excellent advice jjones1700. I like my Tascam 38 for tracking everything. However, since I'm recording my band I have noticed that 8 tracks is somewhat limiting to me. I'm now using 4 to 5 tracks for drums. What I need to do is buy a mixer for my drums and go from that to two tracks in my main mixer to help save room on the recorder. Or if I had the $$$ I'd buy a 2' 24 track and be done with it. Try to buy local if you can. You should be able to get a good one for about 500.00 or so.Good luck.

 

[sweetbeats]

cjacek always says buy local, and buy more based on condition rather than make/model.

I'd say first decide on a format (1/4" or 1/2" 8-track). I think you'd be happy with any 1/2" 8-track from Tascam and the Otari MX5050 is indeed a great option as well. I think for somebody getting into analog multitracking I'd recommend the Tascam just because of the parts availability and community support. Lots of Tascam 38's out there.

I also second the idea that you need to be prepared to DIY repairs and TLC or know somebody local you trust and get an idea of what repair time is going to cost. If you are going to DIY then be prepared to spend about $250~300 in tools and equipment needed for calibration (including the test tape).

Get a manual if it doesn't come with one. I recommend the Service Manual even if you don't plan on doing your own repairs.

Like jjones I'm not trying to scare you off but these machines DO REQUIRE their own care and feeding and its not rocket science once you get the hang of it and have the right tools.

BUT...look for the best condition one you can find locally. Watch craigslist. Have the seller demonstrate its functions for you. Don't rush into it. Take pictures, especially of the heads and put them up here for opinions. If the seller is legit he/she will appreciate you wanting to take the time to "suit up" to care for the machine and to get opinions/advisement. It is an indicator that it is going to a good home and if it has been cared for and the seller is a good one that will matter to them.

$1000 is a healthy budget for a 1/2" 8-track deck.

I agree that $500 is reasonable, and that leaves funds for maintenance gear, some tape, etc.

What do you have for a mixer? I learned the hard way that an analog deck beckons for an analog mixer for the sake of work-flow and independent control over bussing, trim and levels to tape.

Once I know that I love that method I can always upgrade later to a finer machine.

You'd be surprised how nice something like a Tascam 38 can sound...don;t get stuck on the idea that you're getting a second-rate machine for your money and that you'll need to "upgrade to a finer machine"...

 

[Chilljam]

agreed with everything that's been said.

I ventured into this about two years ago as well.

The biggest thing I think is buying a machine that has seen a moderate amount of use (none of this 'unused for 10 years' stuff), has been maintained throughout it's life and is LOCAL to you so you can inspect it before buying it and if you do buy it, take it home in your car. If you don't know what to look for when inspecting it, bring a long someone who does.

It really is about the condition and history of the machine you buy and not particularly what brand/model. I'm not a technician in this field but I know what to look out for when i buy tape decks and so far, I haven't needed to do any repairs other than basic maintenance (cleaning and demagging) to any of my machines and they are working tip-top.

You got a huge budget compared to what I had, I still managed to get 1/4" 8 track and 1/4" 2 track decks that still work perfectly for about half of your budget. A well looked after, probably even recently professionally serviced Tascam 1/2" 8 track is something you should be looking for and it should fit quite comfortably within your budget.

PS: Another little thing I always try to do is look for 'newer' model decks, for example, like getting a Tascam ATR-60 8 track over a Tascam 38 because the ATR was made some 15 years later.

 

[sweetbeats]

Heh...might be a bit of a challenge to find an ATR60-8 in his budget...if you can even FIND one...

I'm not sure what I was thinking when I didn't suggest the TSR-8. Those are very common as well and have onboard noise reduction so put that on your list.

 

[Beck]

The TSR-8 is the last Tascam 1/2" 8-track made and is an improvement sound wise to the 38. I chose it over the Otari MX5050/8. I've used more machines than I can count over my lifetime and no upgrade is necessary if you start with a TSR-8, unless you need more tracks. And really you can start out with any of these mentioned and not have to "upgrade." The sound quality of the 38, 48, TSR-8 and MX5050 is in the same ballpark... they are all very good.

Get whatever is in the best condition. That’s the most important thing to remember.

By the way the 38 came out in 1982/83 and the ATR-60 in 1985.

 

[sweetbeats]

By the way the 38 came out in 1982/83 and the ATR-60 in 1985

Yah...The ATR60-8 replaced the 58...the 48 came out about the same time and was sort of a replacement for the 38, but the 38 didn't get its true "replacement" until the TSR-8 came out and the TSR-8 trumped the 48 because it had a more effective sync interface and the onboard dbx...more advanced servo and better price point with the two-head transport. A winning combination. I would venture to say that the TSR-8 had the longest production run of any Teac/Tascam 1/2" 8-track.

 

[jpmorris]

Note that the TSR-8 was designed to compete with digital recorders, so if you're deliberately trying to get tape artifacts, it might sound a little too clean.

 

[Beck]

Note that the TSR-8 was designed to compete with digital recorders, so if you're deliberately trying to get tape artifacts, it might sound a little too clean.

The nice thing is you can get about as clean or compressed as you want. You can turn off the dbx and push the levels and you'll have the warm fuzzy. I like the way SM911 responds best when doing this. It's the tape that should be doing the compression. Otherwise you have clipping of electronics instead of the musical distortion you get from the tape itself.

 

[sweetbeats]

Tim, that is such an excellent argument for beng choosy about matching the tape to the machine for the sound you want to achieve as opposed to assuming that the newest highest output tape will sound the best. If you are after tape saturation then +9 tape (for instance) may not be what you want depending on the machine and its electronics. If you don't understand the relationship between these things then ask and let us help you understand it. It is one of the most powerful features of analog tape recording. Beck helped me understand it at least two times ...it takes a little bit sometimes. BUT TRULY, getting your head around this opens a whole new world of how you can use your tape machine and fit it to the application/source material. An analog tape machine can be a VERY versatile tool.