Why Line6 Sucks!!!

Three and a half years of sitting at the depths of the HR archive and the issue is just as hot as it was then. Good work bobandshawn!

Dear Line6,

I have in my possession a Flextone II and while it's a fairly usable amplifier, You guys probably would have made off better had you stuck to labellling it with original settings and made it sound like a Line 6 Amp, and calling the sounds, Line 6 sounds.

Much like those cheeky bastards on eBay selling the SM57 knockoffs that are so convincing you have to break them down and take them apart to see the differences. The time and effort involved in doing it and they could have just started their own mic line.

Sheesh...some people..

KT
 
line 6 stuff totally rocks :) I have depended on them for many awesome tones for years.

however, dont expect them to advance any further, their dsp guys have fled the scene.
 
RejectionNinja said:
I'm not trying to say bashing digital modeling is a cliche that any dumbass can and will do, but...

A singer/songwriter told me last week that he used to have a Line 6 amplifier but he got rid of it right away because "they didn't do a very good job on the sounds!"

And he plays an acoustic/electric with nasty corroded strings directly into a PA head, so clearly he knows the difference between a great guitar sound and playing an acoustic/electric with nasty corroded strings directly into a PA head. He knows the difference, but for whatever reason he prefers to sound like shit.

But EVERYBODY has READ that Line 6 didn't do a very good job on their sounds, and now EVERYBODY can SAY it like they figured it out all by themselves. Even if all you do is play an awful guitar with awful strings into a PA head, you can act like a gear expert if you say "I don't like Line 6 because digital is bad" which you read on the internet.

I have the Pod XT Live. It comes stock with 36 amp models, 24 cabinet models, and something like 70 effects pedals, for $399 street. Ignore the 70 effects pedals and ignore the 24 cabinet models. Let's pretend that the average modeled amplifier would cost you $750 each, but the Pod doesn't REALLY sound EXACTLY like $27,000 in amplifiers. It only sounds close to those 36 amplifiers, so let's give them a "modeled" value of merely $500 per amplifier.

So you've got something like $18,000 in modeled amplifiers in a thing that costs $399. Plus 24 cabinets and 70 effects pedals. Wow what a rip off! :rolleyes:

It cost $399, sounds close to 36 different amplifiers, but it doesn't sound EXACTLY like a Hiwatt DR 103 for $3250. Wow, what a rip off! :rolleyes:

And just to be balanced, the Behringer V-Amp sounds like a nice deal as well, though I've never played one. You'll NEVER catch me saying that the Pod XT Live sounds exactly like the modeled equipment (at least, I've never gotten it to sound exactly like any particular real piece of gear) but FFS, $400.

Here's the new cliche. The fastest way to prove to me that you're kind of a dummy is trying to explain to me that a $400 pedal that does a decent impression of $50,000+ in equipment is a rip off. And if you say that while holding an Epiphone Les Paul, I might punch you in the face. :D

To the OP - I'm not addressing the tech support. Sounds like a bad experience. If it were me, I'd probably avoid Line 6 in the future as well.
Click to expand...



Sorry, but it doesn't sound like the amps it claims too, so there is no way any amp that sounds "close" is worth a dime, unless of course you are willing to sacrifice tone....which I am not. Line6 is way over priced. It's not new technology at this point, and is done much, much cheaper. If people want to throw money away just to get "closer" to the amp they disire, then go for it. However, close isn't good enough for me.


BTW....it's not really "close" by any means. Not even in the same ball park with the amps it claims to mimic.
 
Toker41 said:
Sorry, but it doesn't sound like the amps it claims too, so there is no way any amp that sounds "close" is worth a dime, unless of course you are willing to sacrifice tone....which I am not. Line6 is way over priced. It's not new technology at this point, and is done much, much cheaper. If people want to throw money away just to get "closer" to the amp they disire, then go for it. However, close isn't good enough for me.


BTW....it's not really "close" by any means. Not even in the same ball park with the amps it claims to mimic.
Click to expand...

What type of guitar do you play, and what's the name of your cover band? :cool:
 
Whatever.

I bought a Sovtek Mig tube amp with less money than the latest POD.

Couldn't be happier!!:D

Now, I'm going to build something for myself... Wanna take a guess between a Tube amplifier or a modeler?
 
RejectionNinja said:
What type of guitar do you play, and what's the name of your cover band? :cool:
Click to expand...

Never played in a cover band in my life. I have several guitars. Gibson les pauls, V's, Ibanez, Custom shop BC Rich...it goes on.

I am fortunate enough to own a lot of the amps these modelers claim to emulate. Like I said, not one of the dozens on the market even come close to the real things.
 
Toker41 said:
Never played in a cover band in my life. I have several guitars. Gibson les pauls, V's, Ibanez, Custom shop BC Rich...it goes on.

I am fortunate enough to own a lot of the amps these modelers claim to emulate. Like I said, not one of the dozens on the market even come close to the real things.
Click to expand...

Sorry, guess I just presumed since you're trying to sound exactly like somebody famous.

Thanks for the input.
 
RejectionNinja said:
Sorry, guess I just presumed since you're trying to sound exactly like somebody famous.

Thanks for the input.
Click to expand...



You bring up a good point. A lot depends on what level one is on, and what level they are trying to reach. Hobbyist will probably find modelers favorably priced, and that they will do all they really need. Then there are guys that need that perfect tone, because they take what they are doing a lot more seriously, and be a lot more picky. However, I believe that even the hobbyist will look back on the tones from their modelers one day, and say "meh".
I remember when the ADA MP1 was the rage. Skid Row used it. Now I listen to those recordings, and it sounds weak as hell, where I seem to remember liking the sound back in that day. Could be that my ears are more trained now, or it could be that it just took a little time to realize it sucked. Nothing will ever replace a good warm tube amp.
 
Toker41 said:
You bring up a good point. A lot depends on what level one is on, and what level they are trying to reach. Hobbyist will probably find modelers favorably priced, and that they will do all they really need. Then there are guys that need that perfect tone, because they take what they are doing a lot more seriously, and be a lot more picky. However, I believe that even the hobbyist will look back on the tones from their modelers one day, and say "meh".
I remember when the ADA MP1 was the rage. Skid Row used it. Now I listen to those recordings, and it sounds weak as hell, where I seem to remember liking the sound back in that day. Could be that my ears are more trained now, or it could be that it just took a little time to realize it sucked. Nothing will ever replace a good warm tube amp.
Click to expand...

Me? A good point? Thanks! Truly I was just having a little fun.

I agree though. If it's no big deal to spend $4000 on an amplifier and its backup, and the road cases, etc., then you probably have no interest in a modeling package. That would be me, too, but I'm making mortgage payments, not amplifier payments. :D

I know the Pod XT doesn't sound exactly like what it claims to model, but at the same time lots and lots of people hate the product based on really bizarre criteria. The Line 6 presets that come stock are WAY over the top and sound like a digital orgy. People are also fond of comparing a $400 product that does 2000 different tones (of varying quality, regardless of whether they actually sound exactly like a "1965 block logo Marshall Plexi 45") to a $3000 (or priceless) amplifier that does 1 sound (or 1-4 if you want to count channels). I simply refuse to acknowledge that as a valid comparison.

It's like comparing an iPod to prime seats to see the National Symphony Orchestra. If you got the tickets, you don't need the iPod. That doesn't mean that iPods are crap, though.

It does not sound exactly like the amps being modeled, maybe is not everyone's cup of tea, maybe is not the best tool for live performance, but For Frank's Sake it's only $400. It's easily the most versatile piece of equipment I've ever bought.

ON TOPIC - I've never used their tech support, though. :cool:
 
ecktronic said:
Lets kill line6 and all of their PODs which are killing guitar tones across the world, wide.
Click to expand...

I got the POD X3 and it's great. It does have some technical glitches but when it comes to sound it's like standing in front of a roaring Marshall. Same thing dude. Works great for practicing and recording.
 
Toker41 said:
Sorry, but it doesn't sound like the amps it claims too, so there is no way any amp that sounds "close" is worth a dime, unless of course you are willing to sacrifice tone....which I am not. ....... BTW....it's not really "close" by any means. Not even in the same ball park with the amps it claims to mimic.
Click to expand...

Well, now, that's not entirely true. The presets are not great, for sure, but you can do a lot with the gain and tone knobs.

Part of the problem is that, if you want to tweak one of their amp models to get really close to what that amp is supposed to sound like, you have to have had some experience playing through that actual amp. For example, if you've never played through a non-master-volume Twin, you might wonder why the Line 6 model of that amp will never get dirty.

I find their Fender models to be quite good, and the Hiwatt model sounds very close to my vintage Matamp, which is a similar amp design. I can't speak to the accuracy of most of the others because I don't have any direct experience with those amps, but I find that the Marshall models are quite versatile.

There are a couple of big weaknesses to the Pod XTL and, I assume, other modelers. First of all, you will never capture the feel of a big amp pumping lots of air into a room, even if you dial in a lot of room in the "AIR" setting. Second, the Pod XTL is both at its best and worst when utilizing all the effects in a bank. Best because the effects will mask any weakness in the amp model. Worst because this introduces the most noticable digital artifacts, particularly during signal decay.
 
As Zaph says it helps if you have played the real amps,I mainly use Marshalls so I can dial in a reasonable aproximation of the Marshall overdriven sound,the dials will be nothing like what they are set to on my amp but the sound is certainly close enough to work with,I find you can get some really nice clean sounds as well.

I like the toneports when I am on the move,fantastic wee interfaces for the money.

I own a few Line6 toys and one thing that does hack me off is the constant spam and the fact they are only interested in what you are gonna buy not what you have already bought.
 
CMunch said:
I mainly use Marshalls so I can dial in a reasonable aproximation of the Marshall overdriven sound
Click to expand...

This is the only Marshall amp that can be approximated with line6 digital toys.


marshl.jpg
 
Hey all, im new to this site,

just spent a couple hours reading this whole post ( found it accidently and got stuck into it.)

so i thought i would share my 2c with the rest of you :cool:

for starters, and i am not trying to insult you toker . but why buy a POD that has all these different sounds in it when realisticaly we are after one kick ass sound that we stick to.

sure if you like line6 and their "amazing tonal ranges" buy it.. but if it were me i would test a number of different products, read the reviews and go from there.

simpler.easier and definitly what you want.

i think line6 are shit but thats just me and am sorry to hear youv had such bad exp with them. i was looking at buying l6 products and after playing a spiderIII nearly threw up. this thread makes me feel a whole lot better for not buying digital shit.:D

Zach.
 
Very old thread and normally I just ignore thread bumps, but what the hell, I'm bored so I'll chime in too.

I used a Johnson J-Station for rather a while, in college. It was cool - I could record pretty convincing guitar sounds with it at 4 in the morning, so it was a great songwriting aid for someone working in a dorm room with occasional bouts of insomnia. :D

However, then I realized all I ever really used from it was one clean Fender model ("Blackface," I think it was based on a Deluxe but I'd have to check) and two Mesa models ("Rectified," a Dual Rec, and "Hot Rod," a Mark IIC+ that to my ears sounded more like a Mark I - it certainly did Santana way better than Metallica).

Which sort of brings us to this point:

RejectionNinja said:
I have the Pod XT Live. It comes stock with 36 amp models, 24 cabinet models, and something like 70 effects pedals, for $399 street. Ignore the 70 effects pedals and ignore the 24 cabinet models. Let's pretend that the average modeled amplifier would cost you $750 each, but the Pod doesn't REALLY sound EXACTLY like $27,000 in amplifiers. It only sounds close to those 36 amplifiers, so let's give them a "modeled" value of merely $500 per amplifier.

So you've got something like $18,000 in modeled amplifiers in a thing that costs $399. Plus 24 cabinets and 70 effects pedals. Wow what a rip off! :rolleyes:

It cost $399, sounds close to 36 different amplifiers, but it doesn't sound EXACTLY like a Hiwatt DR 103 for $3250. Wow, what a rip off! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

See, for me, that's not really a selling point. I don't really NEED an amp that sounds like 36 different amps and 24 different cabinets, with 70 different effects pedals. Rather, I have a pretty good idea of the tones I'm after, and I just need a rig that will get me there.

About that time, when I realized I was using a couple classic Mesa sounds and a Fender sound that Mesa based their clean tone after, I realized that I was going about it the wrong way. I traded my Marshall TSL (a brief flirtation trying to get back into the Marshall sound after I used a buddy's DSL for a gig and had a blast with it) in for a Mesa Nomad, which has since given way to a Roadster. I've never been happier with my recorded tone today.

There's also another issue I have with Line6- a "Rectifier" is WAY more than just the Channel 3 Modern Crunch sound that people associate with it. I happen to love the Rectifier clean sound, and the lead sounds on Channel 2 (on a 3-channel Recto - Channel 3 on my 4 channel Roadster) are absolutely phenominal - about perfect for me. Yet, no "Treadplate" or "Rectified" or whatever they call it model ever models anything other than the Recto scooped rhythm tone.

Anyway, I tried modelers, had a lot of fun with one for a while, and ended up just giving it to a buddy of mine who was ampless for a while because it was just collecting dust.

That said, I do use a Line6 DL4 delay, and Steven Wilson recorded all of Porcupine Tree's "Deadwing" with a Pod through a Marshall 4x12 (I think to prove a point, more than anything), so if you're not running it direct you can certainly get great results.
 
I know the poster above only used 3 amp models...and putting aside the fact another pointed out the fact that at just $500 each it would save you $35,000.

What about storing and Hauling those other amps arround?...same with the Variax guitars...keeping fresh strings on all those guitars...in a year a variax 300 pays for itself if you use just 5 of those models.

And when it comes down to it they are close enough for rock and roll...we dont play music for sound engineers to critique...its those masses out there that dont know the difference.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
I know the poster above only used 3 amp models...and putting aside the fact another pointed out the fact that at just $500 each it would save you $35,000.

What about storing and Hauling those other amps arround?...same with the Variax guitars...keeping fresh strings on all those guitars...in a year a variax 300 pays for itself if you use just 5 of those models.

And when it comes down to it they are close enough for rock and roll...we dont play music for sound engineers to critique...its those masses out there that dont know the difference.
Click to expand...

Easy - because if I'm after three sounds, it's not too hard to find an amp that can do all three of them, especially if those three sounds happen to be something that's largely associated with a single company. ;) So, I "haul" one amp around.

With the Variax, your mileage may of course vary, but there's more to having multiple guitars than the fact they sound different, I think. I've noticed that I tend to play very differently when I pick up my Strat than when I pick up my roommate's Les Paul, or when I pick up my Universe, or when I pick up a Telecaster, or when I pick up my acoustic. I think the way certain guitars lend themselves differently to different techniques - the neck profile on a Tele just owning for compound bends, for example - is half the fun of owning them, too.

So, even before we start talking about the differences in sound quality (and the masses may not know the difference, but I suspect I would), I think there are enough reasons that I'd rather own my Roadster, a Strat, and an Universe, vs a Variax and a Pod.

I have a name, you know, by the way... ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top