Jammie vs. the RIAA
- Thread starter mattkw80
- Start date
Lumpy
Currently Naked
I think you should claim to be a single mother.
Work the sympathy angle.
Lumpy
You Played on Lawrence Welk?
Yes but no blue notes. Just blue hairs.
www.LumpyGuitar.net
leddy
Well-known member
1. Best thread ever?
2. Its somewhat disturbing that most of the people who are into this whole " music should be free" bullshit are young. Its a different generation than mine. Its not just this thread, I see it all over the internet. People say things like " they can make money playing concerts and selling t-shirts."
IMO, only a young person could think that way. Playing concerts and touring is tougher as you get older. I am 42 and wiped out because I had 3 gigs today, I feel like I played football.I play 200 nites a year. Err, I dont want to do that forever. Young people think that, for some strange reason, they will be young forever.
I think it also has to do with many kids seeing music as something you just pick up and do. You just pick up the guitar, maybe take lessons for a year or two and you're jamming. They don't see that some of us have spent decades in the woodshed to reach a level of professional playing that can sustain a decent living, or spent tens of thousands of dollars on a musical education. They're missing the whole work ethic part of it.
I think mattkw80 is buying.
DavidK
New member
legionserial
New member
She earns more than I do.
I buy all my music.
I buy all my music.
Ford Van
Banned
You got a problem with that?
And while you are at it, ban yourself from the Cave please!
A personal attack and gratuitous insult?
Keep telling yourself that, whatever makes you feel better.
Stating a fact is not an insult. Look at your signature. Look at all the threads in the cave where you call people out. You sit on here and talk trash about people all day. I didn't call you any names, I didn't attack you in any way. I called it like I see it, and now it seems that while you're pretty good at dishing it out, you sure do have a hard time taking it.
I don't want to start a flame war in Jenni's Place, so if you feel the need to reply to this Van, you can do what you normally do and start a thread and call me out in the cave.
Ford Van
Banned
Maybe you should get out of here and the Cave every once in a while and participate in the topic forums before you go making slanderous and misleading comments and insults like this?
Ford Van
Banned
Zaphod B
Raccoons-Be-Gone, Inc.
Well said, Leddy.
I had a little discussion with some of the guys over in the "Marketing Your Own Music" forum, in which I was derided for having been in cover bands my whole musical life. These guys were all into "shows" - 45 minutes of original music, and it's over.
I tried to explain that playing a full three- or four-set gig is demanding and exhausting, and setting up and breaking down a moving van's worth of equipment for a 45-minute gig just isn't worth it unless there's the possibility of a major sea change in your career.
I know this is a little off topic but your point about a work ethic is well made.
Back to the discussion at hand
I just saw this on yahho this morning. Talking to one of the jurors who levied the fine on Jammie, I thought it was pretty interesting......
MINNEAPOLIS - Some of the jurors who levied a $222,000 penalty last week against a Minnesota woman for illegally sharing music online would have liked her to pay the maximum $3.6 million penalty, one juror said.
Jammie Thomas, 30, is one of about 26,000 people the music industry has sued for copyright infringement and the first to take a case to trial.
The six record companies that sued her accused her of illegally dowloading songs and offering 1,702 for other people to download from her Kazaa file-sharing account. She denied ever using file-sharing software.
The jurors quickly agreed unanimously that Thomas, a mother of two from Brainerd, had infringed the copyrights of all 24 songs examined in the trial, juror Lisa Reinke told The Associated Press Wednesday.
The deliberations then turned to how much Thomas should pay the six record that sued her, with the jurors settling on an award of $9,250 per song. They could have awarded the companies as much as $150,000 per song.
Reinke said she wasn't sure at first how much Thomas should pay. The jurors wrote on unsigned slips of paper the amounts they thought were right, Reinke said. They piled the papers on a table, and the foreman read off the amounts.
"A few said we could go up to 150 (thousand), and then other people said, 'No, that's way too high,'" she said. "We just all discussed it and gave our views and came up with an agreeable amount."
The law allowed them to award between $750 and $150,000 per song.
Reinke said she felt they picked the right amount during their 4 1/2 hours of discussion.
"You go too low, it's not going to stop the illegal downloading of music," she said. "People are going to think, 'I could do this, I could go through federal court and get off cheap.'"
The jurors included a few people who said before trial that they had downloaded legal music online and at least one who did not have a computer in their home.
One pronounced himself "the computer illiterate in the family."
Reinke, 41, who lives in International Falls, said jurors didn't talk about the verdict's impact on Thomas. Thomas has said she makes $36,000 a year working for the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe.
"It's tough because you can't allow yourself to get involved emotionally," Reinke said. "You're there to do a job, and that's what you've got to do."
Thomas' attorney, Brian Toder, said on Wednesday that he may argue to the judge that the size of the verdict is out of proportion to the offense. The songs she was accused of sharing could have been bought legally for 99 cents each.
Record company attorneys claimed the problem was that Thomas made them available to millions of listeners.
Toder said he may also appeal the judge's ruling that the record companies had to show only that Thomas made the songs available online — not that anyone actually downloaded them from her account.
The companies that sued Thomas were EMI Group PLC's Capitol Records Inc.; the Arista Records LLC label and its parent Sony BMG Music Entertainment, which is run by Sony Corp. and Bertelsmann AG; Vivendi SA's UMG Inc. and its label, Interscope Records; and Warner Bros. Records Inc., which is a unit of Warner Music Group Corp.
I just saw this on yahho this morning. Talking to one of the jurors who levied the fine on Jammie, I thought it was pretty interesting......
MINNEAPOLIS - Some of the jurors who levied a $222,000 penalty last week against a Minnesota woman for illegally sharing music online would have liked her to pay the maximum $3.6 million penalty, one juror said.
Jammie Thomas, 30, is one of about 26,000 people the music industry has sued for copyright infringement and the first to take a case to trial.
The six record companies that sued her accused her of illegally dowloading songs and offering 1,702 for other people to download from her Kazaa file-sharing account. She denied ever using file-sharing software.
The jurors quickly agreed unanimously that Thomas, a mother of two from Brainerd, had infringed the copyrights of all 24 songs examined in the trial, juror Lisa Reinke told The Associated Press Wednesday.
The deliberations then turned to how much Thomas should pay the six record that sued her, with the jurors settling on an award of $9,250 per song. They could have awarded the companies as much as $150,000 per song.
Reinke said she wasn't sure at first how much Thomas should pay. The jurors wrote on unsigned slips of paper the amounts they thought were right, Reinke said. They piled the papers on a table, and the foreman read off the amounts.
"A few said we could go up to 150 (thousand), and then other people said, 'No, that's way too high,'" she said. "We just all discussed it and gave our views and came up with an agreeable amount."
The law allowed them to award between $750 and $150,000 per song.
Reinke said she felt they picked the right amount during their 4 1/2 hours of discussion.
"You go too low, it's not going to stop the illegal downloading of music," she said. "People are going to think, 'I could do this, I could go through federal court and get off cheap.'"
The jurors included a few people who said before trial that they had downloaded legal music online and at least one who did not have a computer in their home.
One pronounced himself "the computer illiterate in the family."
Reinke, 41, who lives in International Falls, said jurors didn't talk about the verdict's impact on Thomas. Thomas has said she makes $36,000 a year working for the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe.
"It's tough because you can't allow yourself to get involved emotionally," Reinke said. "You're there to do a job, and that's what you've got to do."
Thomas' attorney, Brian Toder, said on Wednesday that he may argue to the judge that the size of the verdict is out of proportion to the offense. The songs she was accused of sharing could have been bought legally for 99 cents each.
Record company attorneys claimed the problem was that Thomas made them available to millions of listeners.
Toder said he may also appeal the judge's ruling that the record companies had to show only that Thomas made the songs available online — not that anyone actually downloaded them from her account.
The companies that sued Thomas were EMI Group PLC's Capitol Records Inc.; the Arista Records LLC label and its parent Sony BMG Music Entertainment, which is run by Sony Corp. and Bertelsmann AG; Vivendi SA's UMG Inc. and its label, Interscope Records; and Warner Bros. Records Inc., which is a unit of Warner Music Group Corp.
leddy
Well-known member
Thanks. The kids who looked down on you for being in a cover band will have a different perspective when they get a little older, I'm sure.
I wish some younger players could understand that they're going to look silly jumping around the stage in some dive playing punk/grunge/whatever when they're 45. They probably wouldn't want to anyway.
Personally, I can make enough to live on playing music I love (jazz). I can do it for the rest of my life because I paid my dues. My expectations were that I would study with private teachers, practice several hours a day, study music in college, continue studying with private teachers after college, etc. for a big chunk of my life before I would consider myself a professional musician.
Many kids (not all) today seem to have a sense of entitlement that they should not have to work that hard. Instead, the de-value the pursuits that demand hard work in favor of the easy way out (like making "beats" and sampling people who can play instead of learning an instrument). Oh well. More gigs for me.
Funny story-
I used to be a huge Rush fan. Years ago they were being interviewed on "Rockline" when some guy calls in and asks Geddy "man, how did you get so good on bass?". Geddy says in a great sarcastic way "um, watched a lot of TV".
Sorry, back to the topic...
cusebassman
Freakin' sweet
Interesting article about the Jammie and how much the jurors made her pay, essentially.
I understand the argument that she made that material available to millions of users, but I think she really ought to only have to pay for every song uploaded. I'd be pretty annoyed if I ended up having to pay 1700 * .99 cents... perhaps make it more than $0.99, as 1700 dollars does seem like a pretty low fine, but upwards of 10,000 per song? Jesus...
And what happens to you if you are sued and cant afford the fine? Do they garnish your wages, or take your house, or throw you in jail?...
"What're you in for?"
"I uploaded 26 songs on the Internet to other users. You?"
"Murdered a 4 year old"
"Oh, that's nice."
I understand the argument that she made that material available to millions of users, but I think she really ought to only have to pay for every song uploaded. I'd be pretty annoyed if I ended up having to pay 1700 * .99 cents... perhaps make it more than $0.99, as 1700 dollars does seem like a pretty low fine, but upwards of 10,000 per song? Jesus...
And what happens to you if you are sued and cant afford the fine? Do they garnish your wages, or take your house, or throw you in jail?...
"What're you in for?"
"I uploaded 26 songs on the Internet to other users. You?"
"Murdered a 4 year old"
"Oh, that's nice."
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
Most of them probably won't even be playing. I can't count the number of players I've know that have quit thru the years. Usually because they didn't 'make it' and can't make a living playing originals so for them there's no point in it which is a different way of saying that if they can't be a star they don't care about music which is another way of saying they never really loved music in the first place.
But for me, I just love the act of playing ..... doesn't matter what I'm playing ...... just so long as I'm playing. And that's given me a wide range of revenue streams. I can play Miles Davis and 'real book' stuff on sax all night one night ..... then go to guitar and play Merle Haggard the next and Seegar and Skynard the next. And I like them all equally, I mainly miss whatever I'm not playing at the moment ..... if all I do is jazz, I get bored with it .... ditto with country or rock or whatever. I really like jumping from genre to genre; often in the course of the night.
Next week for Biketoberfest I'm subbing for a really good bass player in a 10 piece horn band that does all BS&T ..... Chicago .... Steely Dan ... that kind of stuff. Gonna be a huge fun week except for the frantic double gig days ..... hell, even that's fun except for my poor aching back!
Have I mentioned I love playing?
DavidK
New member
The Rolling Stones are basically a cover band. They are covering their own stuff from a different time.
I am sure that Leddy and Lt. Bob agree: a gig is a gig.
It can be at Carnegie Hall, an 18,000 seat arena or Joey Tannenbaum's Bar Mitzvah. I played a church concert yesterday, the opera is tonite, tomorrow is Pops doing sports songs. I am happy for the work.
JMarcomb
New member
just to elaborate on leddys effectual theory... i was listening to as interview with micheal jordan awhile back on how todays kids, that come into the nba, are now spoon fed with the huge sign on bonuses without ever proving themselves in the real world. he mentioned how he had alot of rejection and had to work really hard to get where hes at in his professional carrer. seems to tie in nicely in regards to todays sediment of easy come philosophies