Mixer for 38-8?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MartyMcFly
  • Start date Start date
Hi,
Of course I want a mixer that can compliment the analog sound of the 38. But I also wouldnt mind a new mixer if it does just what i need and nothing extra fancy.
To answer your questions...
1.
Mainly 1-2 with the most ever being 4-6 for drums. And there I can compromise if I had to.
2.
Mostly just me. But occasionally I will be with someone...

OK, now I have a little bit more to go on! :)

Recording drums when you only have 8 tracks to play with on the 38 will probably force you into initially not using more then 4 tracks of tape to capture them, basically, kick, snare/hats and a stereo overhead pair and once you get a good mic setup down, you could probably squeeze that down to just 2 tracks of tape with a good sub mix set up on your mixer so the mixer I mentioned in my last post, the M312B would still be flexible enough to handle all of that.

As far as new mixers go you'll probably have to look strictly at the Mackie's and need to get one with direct outs and at least 4 recording busses. The Mackie's wont sound as warm and smooth as the older TASCAM's would but they would be newer with less chance of service issues for the here and now anyway.

Cheers! :)
 
Marty, you mentioned may be dumping into PT and then out and possibly back in to finish. You might want to ask around on this one, but I've heard of audio degradation with more than one D/A- A/D conversions. Everything I've read cautions to keep the conversions down to only one if possible. If you had a stand alone converter like an Apogee then it might be less of a concern. Please check around with others that may know more about this so you get the best possible quality that I assume you are looking for.
 
THX...
No Im not worried about that. The way i do it i will only ever be transfering my tracks from the R2R to my Digi. Then they'd get edited/mixed/mastered.
I am looking at my setup and i dont know if the digi-002 mixer will work. It doesnt have enough inputs for mics and lines for guitars and stuff. I guess I dont get the flowchart of the signal for the R2R with mixer.
 
The M-1B you mentioned (posted to the wrong thread) would actually work on a very basic level if you just want a simple interface and are set on doing any tweaking ITB. You will have only level and panning. I have two of those and they are pretty handy to have around. People tend to underestimate at first though and you soon may wish you had gone for something more versatile like the M-312. There’s a lot to be said for an analog signal chain, including EQ. For one you can mix your analog tracks down to two (right/left stereo mix) before it even hits the digi. You can use the rest of the tracks on the digi for other things. This is just another option to consider in addition to the ones mentioned.

The advantage here (IMO) is that any ITB manipulating of that finished stereo mix will be none to minimal. You're closer to getting the best of both worlds than if you port your tracks one-to-one from the r2r to the digi for "finishing."

The signal flow is easy to see this way... 8 into 2 via an external mixer into digi. And now you have the rest of the tracks left on the digi for straight to digi recording.

Once you can visualize this it should be easier to see the 8 into 4 option using 4 busses of a more elaborate analog mixer.

:)
 
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Beck,
Is it even possible to use my digi-002 with the R2R?
Another question is...Are there other cheaper ProTools options like going with a 8 in/out motu or MAudio interface and PT? Would that work too. Cause right now I dont see how I can even encorperate the 002 into the situation...
 
The dig-002 isn’t my cup of tea, but you can use your digi-002 as both a mixer into the r2r and back to the digi. It appears a limited number of tracks at a time. One can see from the rear panel that there are limitations in the number of analog connections available at any one time, which is less than ideal for the way many of us like to work.

Whether PC-based DAW or digi, you would benefit from some kind of external analog mixer either way.

Looking over the thread I think at this point there are some issues on the digital side that you can only address by delving into your digi and understanding its capabilities and limitations. The manual addresses various ways the inputs can be routed to the outputs and how the input/outputs can be switched between various levels.

Until you master the digi, this is like taking someone rock climbing and talking them through a repel knowing there isn’t enough rope to get to the bottom... unless someone here can help you in some detail with the digi, as that seems to be as much of a problem as the analog side.

We don’t want to leave you hanging, so I suggest starting with more rope first.
 
Can someone point out to me how to use a mixer with a R2R...
I have the 38-8 and I just got a Yamaha MG124CX mixer. I dont 100% understand how to hook it up to record.
First things first. I need to know the intended work flow of the music. Does the outputs of the 38 go to the intputs of the mixer and vice versua?
Please help me,,,
 
Can someone point out to me how to use a mixer with a R2R...
I have the 38-8 and I just got a Yamaha MG124CX mixer. I dont 100% understand how to hook it up to record.
First things first. I need to know the intended work flow of the music. Does the outputs of the 38 go to the intputs of the mixer and vice versua?
Please help me,,,

Yes,

The mixer will have 8 mono channel main input strips with line inputs to accept the 8 outputs from the 38's line outs. These 8 channels will need to have direct output jacks as well. Does it have them?

To record on the 38's inputs, you'll need to connect the "doubled" buss outs to the line ins on the 38. If your mixer doesn't have doubled up buss output jacks, you'll need to buy 4 splitters or make use of a patch bay which can broaden your routing avenues.

While tracking, you'll be plugging in a Mic into the Yamaha's Mic main channel inputs...You get your level here, touch up a bit with some nice eq and then decide on compression or other processes before it hits the tape. You can now choose where the signal goes; to which track of tape will receive it. Your buss selector switches and pan pots will tell you where the signal goes.

Buss 1 feeds tracks 1 & 5 on tape
Buss 2 feeds tracks 2 & 6 on tape
Buss 3 feeds tracks 3 & 7 on tape
Buss 4 feeds tracks 4 & 8 on tape

Panning to the left and right will select odd and even busses when recording.

Too simple or too deep so far?

Cheers! :)
 
My main greif is the actuall hookup of wires. I have 2 8 RCA-1/4" Recording snakes.
 
I still dont get how to hook it up. The Mixer I got has all the xlr mic inputs I need. Then its got a bunch of marked Inserts. And the last row is of 4 Out In Unbalanced jacks...and 4 more standard stereo jacks...
It doesnt make sense with the 38-8???
 
Isn't that Yamaha only a 2-buss stereo mixer?

Ok… I see how they’re doing it.

When I first looked at it I saw only two master faders and assumed one was right and one was left.

Turns out one master fader is for buss 1 & 2 and one is for stereo out, which is pretty counter intuitive to the way it’s usually done. But I guess a buss by any other name is still a buss.

You’ll have to think of the left/right stereo out jacks as 3 & 4 instead.

Jeff described how to use an 8-track recorder with a 4-buss, which is the same way I do it.

Buss 1 feeds tracks 1 & 5 on tape
Buss 2 feeds tracks 2 & 6 on tape
Buss 3 feeds tracks 3 & 7 on tape
Buss 4 feeds tracks 4 & 8 on tape

Panning to the left and right will select odd and even busses when recording.

You’ll need four Y-cables so each of the four outputs are split into two. Thus you will have eight total outs to match the eight inputs of the 38. However since you only have a 4-buss each input on the 38 shares a buss with another input, as Ghost lists above.

With your Yamaha there are buttons right next to each fader on channels 1 ~ 8. One button is labeled 1-2 and the other is labeled ST (Stereo). On each channel press either of these buttons to assign it to either buss 1/2 or Buss ST (which we are now calling 3/4). Now use the pan controls on each channel to turn the signal all the way left so it will come out of an odd number buss (1 or 3), or all the way right for an even number buss (2 or 4).

This way you can assign any of the first eight channels to any of the four buss outs, which go to the 38 as described by Ghost. Remember you don’t have an output for each input to the 38 because you are sharing four busses.

Chew on that for a bit before you move on.

And don't fail to study your manuals for the digi and the MG124CX like you are preparing for finals.
 
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I still dont get how to hook it up. The Mixer I got has all the xlr mic inputs I need. Then its got a bunch of marked Inserts. And the last row is of 4 Out In Unbalanced jacks...and 4 more standard stereo jacks...
It doesnt make sense with the 38-8???

You're right. It doesn't make sense because you bought the wrong mixer.

The MG124CX was never really designed to interface with an 8 track recorder in that it doesn't have 8 dedicated mono input channels nor does it have the direct out jacks I mentioned a couple of times in my posts in this thread.

For those that want to see for themselves, read the manual.

http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/pa/english/mixers/mg124cx_en_om.pdf

If you just bought it from a store, return it and get something else that has at least those basic features.

Sorry.

Cheers! :)
 
Any recomendations??? Mainly newer mixers...

This would do the job properly if you are wanting something new in the box.

http://www.mackie.com/products/1604vlz3/index.html

Here's a picture of the jack panel...note the direct outs for transfer to your computer and the ample mono inputs for tape, Mics and other sources.

http://www.mackie.com/home/showimage.html?u=/products/1604vlz3/images/1604VLZ3-Rear.jpg

I'm sure this will cost you more but it will actually allow you to do what you're talking about wanting to do.

Cheers! :)
 
OK...
I look at all these new mixers and all the exta features they all seem to have and the nice price to go with it...and I think I might wanna go with a older mixer. One that was made with the 38-8 in mind? What was the mixer reccomended for the 38? Is there 1 better that is considered the best vintage mixer for the unit? I take a look on ebay and there doesnt seem to be much...Thanks
 
OK...
I look at all these new mixers and all the exta features they all seem to have and the nice price to go with it...and I think I might wanna go with a older mixer. One that was made with the 38-8 in mind? What was the mixer reccomended for the 38? Is there 1 better that is considered the best vintage mixer for the unit? I take a look on ebay and there doesnt seem to be much...Thanks

McFly,

Several vintage recommendations were already made in this thread...scroll up a bit and re-read them.

The most ideal one would be the M512 as that's an 8 buss mixer and the second best choice would be the M312B which is very similar to the M512 except it is a 4 buss design.

They won't show up on ebay often and there is a whole other realm of knowledge and experience you need to posses in order to snag one in good condition and at a fair price. Keep in mind both of these vintage mixers went for over $3000 mid 1980's dollars which would translate into double that today with inflation so keeping in mind that the Yamaha and Mackie stuff is selling new for under a gee note, it should give some idea of how cheaply they build crap these days and how much of a real value scoring an older 300 or 500 series TASCAM mixer truly is.

Cheers! :)
 
So what do you reccomend. Should I go and pick up a new mixer at the store where they are a dime a dozen? Or should I wait for that rare Tascam M-312 or 512???
I honestly prefere the older ones...But I dont want to wait...
But again I look at the selection of mixers out there today in the mags and I am not impressed. Most of them are cheaply made or are jazzed up on faders to look cool. I cant even find a normal 8 fader/8 track mixer with 8 analog outputs. I dont think it exists...
Thats all i want. I guess a couple of extra inputs wouldnt hurt and a couple of ectra busses. But thats it...
I really appreciate all the comments and info and knowledge...And it is getting in there...
 
You definitely need to be clear in your own mind what you want. If you really want one of the older mixers, will you be happy with the compromise you will be making by buying a newer mixer? Depending on your answer you could save yourself some money by waiting for what you realy want.

By the way, I have had experience with the Mackie 1202, 1402 and 1604 along with the Onyx 1640 and have found them to be very reliable and well built mixers although I feel the Onyx is a bit over hyped. That doesn't mean they are right for you. Again, only you know what will be right for you and your budget.

One plus for the older mixers like the Tascams is they are more user serviceable than the newer stuff will be since the newer boards use surface mount technology while the older gear will have pcb mount components. If being able to fix your mixer should it develop a problem is important go with any of Ghost's recommendations. If you don't mind disposable technology, but a newer piece of gear. My feeling is the older stuff is less expensive over the long haul when you take this facet into account. Just my 2 cents worth.
 
MartyMcFly; said:
So what do you recommend.

If you can wait and hold out for a M312B, that's what I personally recommend.

If you can't wait, get the Mackie I most recently gave links to.

Either one will do the job you need it to do.

The older M312B, if you can find one, will sell for between 300 to 500 bucks.

The Mackie retails for $1100 and sells for around $800 with average discounts.

The rest is up to you. Be a man and make a freakin' decision! :p

Cheers! :)
 
Marty,
If you like vintage pre's and looking to spend more money than on a Tascam, you can look for a small Studer mixer. An 8 or 10 channel would be enough for a 38 machine. My friend's got a Studer 961 for around $1000. It sounds beautiful.
 
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