Ongoing Drum Help

Here's something that's probably obvious to many, but since I'm an idiot, it's only occurring to me lately.

You have to modify how you set up your drums and how you play them FOR THE SONG.

Get your phones on and listen to all the instruments while you play, not just your drums. Play to the mix.

Too much HH? Lay the fuck off the HH. Snare sounds wimpy? Nail it.

When I'm jamming i'm all over the place. When I'm recording I'll move cymbals, raise HHats, remove toms, etc. Whatever is going to get the best sound on tape. You can't see the drums on tape, nobody cares how stupid you look. It's how you sound that makes a difference.

To do this, you'll need patience.

Play a take, and listen to it. Move some mics and try again. Try a different cymbal, a different snare, a different beater. Listen again. Fuck it, walk away from it and listen to it tomorrow.

Then make carefully considered judgements on mic placement, tuning, and technique based on what you hear.

Dynamics don't mean shit except in the context of the song you're playing now. Fuck all the conceptual stuff you'd like to try and focus on what is going to work.
 
Supercreep said:
Here's something that's probably obvious to many, but since I'm an idiot, it's only occurring to me lately.

You have to modify how you set up your drums and how you play them FOR THE SONG.

Get your phones on and listen to all the instruments while you play, not just your drums. Play to the mix.

Too much HH? Lay the fuck off the HH. Snare sounds wimpy? Nail it.

When I'm jamming i'm all over the place. When I'm recording I'll move cymbals, raise HHats, remove toms, etc. Whatever is going to get the best sound on tape. You can't see the drums on tape, nobody cares how stupid you look. It's how you sound that makes a difference.

To do this, you'll need patience.

Play a take, and listen to it. Move some mics and try again. Try a different cymbal, a different snare, a different beater. Listen again. Fuck it, walk away from it and listen to it tomorrow.

Then make carefully considered judgements on mic placement, tuning, and technique based on what you hear.

Dynamics don't mean shit except in the context of the song you're playing now. Fuck all the conceptual stuff you'd like to try and focus on what is going to work.
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Well said. I recorded a song once with a kick, snare, hi-hat and a crash. That's all it needed.
 
There's still a little bit of phasiness happening, but it's way better overall. Just keep playing with it. You're on the right track though.

The rack toms sound better. I think the floor tom can be tuned lower still.

Snare sounds okay. A little ringy for my taste, but that's a personal thing.

I'm having a hard time with the kick. Are you playing heel up or heel down? It sounds as if you're going easy on it. Stomp that bitch. Put a little more force on it to get it to thump so we can hear what it really sounds like.

In fact, it sounds as if you're going kinda easy on everything. The fun thing about drums is that you can whack the shit out of them. I understand you're just messing around. It's just hard to tell how they really sound if you're not really getting after it. ;)
 
Greg_L said:
There's still a little bit of phasiness happening, but it's way better overall. Just keep playing with it. You're on the right track though.

The rack toms sound better. I think the floor tom can be tuned lower still.

Snare sounds okay. A little ringy for my taste, but that's a personal thing.

I'm having a hard time with the kick. Are you playing heel up or heel down? It sounds as if you're going easy on it. Stomp that bitch. Put a little more force on it to get it to thump so we can hear what it really sounds like.

In fact, it sounds as if you're going kinda easy on everything. The fun thing about drums is that you can whack the shit out of them. I understand you're just messing around. It's just hard to tell how they really sound if you're not really getting after it. ;)
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Thanks dude. If the snare is ringy, should I tune up or down? There does seem to be generally a good bit of resonance overall. Not a fan of it myself.

I switched the beater on the kick from the plastic to the kinda padded one? It's just a reversible beater. What's heel up versus heel down about? I'll try bring down the floor tom a little.
 
Tele, how are you mixing? PC? Gerg showed me that zooming in real close, and making sure the OH's are about as perfect with the snare makes a difference...line them up.

And boost the kick.....:D
 
TelePaul said:
Thanks dude. If the snare is ringy, should I tune up or down? There does seem to be generally a good bit of resonance overall. Not a fan of it myself.
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The ring comes from the head and/or not hitting it in the center. You can tune it differently, but the ring will just go up or down in pitch. I'd tighten it some and put a moongel near the edge to dampen the ring. Ultimately you should just get a drier sounding head if you don't want any ring. I use an Evans Genera Dry and that thing doesn't ring at all. I love it. All crack and meat with no ring. It depends on the music though. You may want some subtle overtones with softer stuff.

I switched the beater on the kick from the plastic to the kinda padded one? It's just a reversible beater. What's heel up versus heel down about? I'll try bring down the floor tom a little.
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Heel up basically means that you play with the ball of your foot on the pedal with your heel hovering above the heel plate. With heel down you rest your heel down and work the beater like you're tapping your foot. Heel up gives a lot more power. Here: http://www.drums-and-drum-sets.com/bass-pedal-technique.php

The felt/plastic beater is all personal taste. Use whichever side you like better. The felt side generally gives more thump and the plastic side generally gives more attack.
 
Greg_L said:
The ring comes from the head and/or not hitting it in the center. You can tune it differently, but the ring will just go up or down in pitch. I'd tighten it some and put a moongel near the edge to dampen the ring. Ultimately you should just get a drier sounding head if you don't want any ring. I use an Evans Genera Dry and that thing doesn't ring at all. I love it. All crack and meat with no ring. It depends on the music though. You may want some subtle overtones with softer stuff.



Heel up basically means that you play with the ball of your foot on the pedal with your heel hovering above the heel plate. With heel down you rest your heel down and work the beater like you're tapping your foot. Heel up gives a lot more power. Here: http://www.drums-and-drum-sets.com/bass-pedal-technique.php

The felt/plastic beater is all personal taste. Use whichever side you like better. The felt side generally gives more thump and the plastic side generally gives more attack.
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Ah I play heel down.
 
Greg_L said:
Switch to heel up and your kick will come to life.
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Cool, will do. Any ideas as to better tackle the phase issue? I followed the recorderman set-up pretty damn accurately.

I finally got my monitors hooked up so I should be able to have a good listen now.
 
TelePaul said:
Cool, will do. Any ideas as to better tackle the phase issue? I followed the recorderman set-up pretty damn accurately.

I finally got my monitors hooked up so I should be able to have a good listen now.
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It may just be your room reflections. Maybe turn the whole kit 90 degrees and set up again.

The phase issues I heard from your 2nd test runs was pretty minimal though. I bet in a mix you'd never know. Maybe, but probably not.

Record a few measures of a steady drum beat and drop some bass and guitars on top to see how it sounds in a mix.
 
Greg_L said:
It may just be your room reflections. Maybe turn the whole kit 90 degrees and set up again.

The phase issues I heard from your 2nd test runs was pretty minimal though. I bet in a mix you'd never know. Maybe, but probably not.

Record a few measures of a steady drum beat and drop some bass and guitars on top to see how it sounds in a mix.
Click to expand...

Okay cool, I'll take another crack at it tomorrow.
 
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