Zoom H6, Deity S-Mic 2 , Sennheiser MKH 416

ecc83

Well-known member
Thank you very much! As I understood, 32 bit float allows me to record at very low gain level and then boost it without boosting noise. Maybe, I understood something wrong.
"Gain staging" and noise/dynamic range confusion accounts I would guess for getting on for 20% of all forum questions? The bare facts are. A modern interface with a decent capacitor microphone will have a noise floor BETTER than most peoples houses most of the time. The sound level of course matters. Speech at a conversational level should give no problems even with a dynamic mic such as the 57/58s. A 7b might be pushing things with 'mid range' interfaces. Even moderately lusty singing will be fine with any microphone. Put that another way? It is very unlikely that hardware is causing a noise problem although of course, anything can be faulty. Recording at 24 bits means even the very best audio gear is limited by its ANALOGUE noise.

Dave.
 
Thank you, Dave! I did not understand much, but thank you anyway! :-)
(What I understood is that my space itself can create noise, but if I record at 4 a.m., and it seems absolutely silent, or there can be noise that I cannot perceive with my ears?)

How can I understand if my Deity S-mic 2 is defective or it is its normal noise floor? I wrote to Deity, but I got no response at all...
 
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ecc83

Well-known member
Thank you, Dave! I did not understand anything, but thank you anyway! :-)

How can I understand if my Deity S-mic 2 is defective or it is its normal noise floor? I wrote to Deity, but I got no response at all...
Well, your lack of understanding is a shortcoming on my part so if you want I can break it down into bits and get you up to speed?

I am known here I think as a "tekky" Old Sod but I do think it is important for people trying to make good recordings to get at least some basic technical knowledge under their bonce! The audio 'bits' market is like any other. Sellers might not qui----te tell porkies but some sail close to the legal wind. The laws of acoustic physics have not changed in hundreds of years so many of the claims made are dubious and you can waste a lot of money being ignorant of the basics.

So, tell me ONE thing you did not understand for now and we will go from there?

Dave.
 
Well, your lack of understanding is a shortcoming on my part so if you want I can break it down into bits and get you up to speed?

I am known here I think as a "tekky" Old Sod but I do think it is important for people trying to make good recordings to get at least some basic technical knowledge under their bonce! The audio 'bits' market is like any other. Sellers might not qui----te tell porkies but some sail close to the legal wind. The laws of acoustic physics have not changed in hundreds of years so many of the claims made are dubious and you can waste a lot of money being ignorant of the basics.

So, tell me ONE thing you did not understand for now and we will go from there?

Dave.
I read it again and I think you meant that it is not my hardware that is guilty of noise, but my voice over techniques or/and the space where I record.
I saw this review about Zoom F6 with 32 bit float and it really impressed me.
 
In one month I will have a chance to try Seinheser 416 in a vocal booth and Deity as well. This is when, I think, I will understand what is wrong.
 

keith.rogers

Bobby'); DROP TABLE USER
In one month I will have a chance to try Seinheser 416 in a vocal booth and Deity as well. This is when, I think, I will understand what is wrong.
I'm still questioning your choice of a shotgun microphone for this purpose. What is your reasoning for that, again?
 

arcaxis

Active member
I'm still questioning your choice of a shotgun microphone for this purpose. What is your reasoning for that, again?
Perhaps since the 416 is one of the choices by a good many VO artists, but usually not the only mic in what they may have to work with. Check out the link below pick a catagory, click the artist name and many of the bios will list the gear they use as well as the mic. Some are using what might be considered fairly budget mics. For what little I've done playing around with recording myself doing readings with LDC, dynamics, and a couple shotguns, the shotgun would be last on my list of choices.

 
I'm still questioning your choice of a shotgun microphone for this purpose. What is your reasoning for that, again?
Robust, small, water resistan (it is humid where I live), etc. I can use it for my online meditations without having it in the shoot, can record with it outside, so it is pretty much universal.
 
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ecc83

Well-known member
Robust, small, water resistan (it is humid where I live), etc. I can use it for my online meditations without having it in the shoot, can record with it outside, so it is pretty much universal.
That seem like a plan! The specifications for that mic are similar to my AKG P150 SDCs in terms of noise level but the Sennheiser is about 6dB (twice) as sensitive. This means that you can eliminate it from the equation should you still experience a poor noise floor.

I have never used a shotgun mic so I cannot tell you its likely performance 'at a distance' Senneiser are a very well respected mic company so I would expect that mic to be very good indeed but, the laws of physics dictate that the noise performance cannot be as good as an NT1a at 300mm! You might have to lower your expectations a bit.

Just a thought? For that sort of money you could get a very decent 'tie tack' mic? Is a discrete headset not a possibility?

Dave.
 

rob aylestone

Well-known member
Tell me what you want me to do, and I'll waste an hour or so - I have a couple of Zooms, and one is an H6. I've never even thought about any noise issue. I don't have a deity- but have 416, AT815, AKG 451/CK8 or CK9

I'm not sure what it will achieve - but I can do it. Just explain exactly what you want me to do.
 
Tell me what you want me to do, and I'll waste an hour or so - I have a couple of Zooms, and one is an H6. I've never even thought about any noise issue. I don't have a deity- but have 416, AT815, AKG 451/CK8 or CK9

I'm not sure what it will achieve - but I can do it. Just explain exactly what you want me to do.
Many thanks, Rob! Can you record the silence with Zoom H6 alone at different levels of gain without any mic and then do the same thing with 416?
In this way, I will able to understand hopefully with my Zoom is ok, and not defective one, and how it will perform with 416.
 
That seem like a plan! The specifications for that mic are similar to my AKG P150 SDCs in terms of noise level but the Sennheiser is about 6dB (twice) as sensitive. This means that you can eliminate it from the equation should you still experience a poor noise floor.

I have never used a shotgun mic so I cannot tell you its likely performance 'at a distance' Senneiser are a very well respected mic company so I would expect that mic to be very good indeed but, the laws of physics dictate that the noise performance cannot be as good as an NT1a at 300mm! You might have to lower your expectations a bit.

Just a thought? For that sort of money you could get a very decent 'tie tack' mic? Is a discrete headset not a possibility?

Dave.
I will definitely try 416 first before buying it and if it is not ok, I will go for Nt1. Thanks, Dave!
 

ecc83

Well-known member
"I will definitely try 416 first before buying it and if it is not ok, I will go for Nt1. Thanks, Dave!"

No! My mention of the NT1a was simply an example of an extremely low noise microphone. You have said you want the 'reach' and all weather capability of an RF shotgun mic which the NT1a certainly is not! Another consideration is, whichever mic you end up with, if you are taking it outside budget for a good quality 'dead cat' wind gag.

Dave.
 

rob aylestone

Well-known member
I'll do you a series of settings, with and without the mics. Frankly, ANY would be my absolute last choice for voiceovers, unless there were problems with the space I couldn't fix. I'll do the recordings tomorrow.
 
I'll do you a series of settings, with and without the mics. Frankly, ANY would be my absolute last choice for voiceovers, unless there were problems with the space I couldn't fix. I'll do the recordings tomorrow.
Thanks, Rob, but it is not necessary to test them all, only 416 (maybe also x/y zoom capsule if you have it, so that I can compare it with mine).
 

rob aylestone

Well-known member
I didn't use the X/Y as that's a pointless mic for a voiceover - as the centre sound close in is thin and weak as It's off axis to both capsules - I guess it would work if you just used one of them?

Anyway - link to the audio clip

What I did was to plug an AKG451 with cardioid capsule into one channel, and then the 416 into the other - both pointing at my mouth - with the front's of the mics at the same distance - the 416 is inside the Sennheiser basket windshield where it lives - so the real mic front is perhaps 50mm back from the outside.

The voice is captured at various distances. The recording is exactly as captures - NO adjustments at all to the levels - so no normalisation. You can do this yourself if needed. It means some bits are too loud, and the end very quiet - but I figured you have the total dynamic range possible. The AKG451 is just for continuity the 416 with plug in and out reveals how much noise comes from the preamps. The recording location isn't the audio studio, it's the video studio - so there is the occasional footstep and some other noises that I didn't remove - but the radio noises are from behind the mics, so quite a long way away. Excuse the mess - about three different jobs all happening at the same time.IMG_6771.jpgIMG_6772.jpg
 

TalismanRich

Well-known member
Rob, I listened to your test, but it was identical in both channels. When you pulled the plug on the 416, I was expecting one channel to go dead, but instead, it was still the same on both channels.

Did you forget to pan the signals L=R?
This is where you "pulled the plug":

416v451.jpg
 
I definitely hear a lot of self-noise on the channel with 416 and when I apply DeNoiser (20%), it disappears. So I can conclude that it is the same thing that with my Deity. What do you think TalismanRich?

Probably, if I want to use a shootgun mic for voiceover and other purposes at the same time without any post processing, I have to use these 4. But I never heard someone speaking about these mics for voiceover as they do about Sennheiser 416.

SennheiserMKH 70$174955151939-2625410
SennheiserMKH 60$149984202347-2825280
RodeNTG8$999816252061-2019559
SennheiserMKH 8070$16998205045115-1919465
 
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