punkin
Univalve & Avatar Speaks
Tim Brown said:
Did anyone catch that nasty looking cymbal with the big a$$ chunk missing out of it?
Did anyone catch that nasty looking cymbal with the big a$$ chunk missing out of it?
Tim Brown
New member
jhankedrums said:
I saw Flo M. when Cryptopsy were on tour th last time around, and yeah - he was fast, but he would have sounded better if he had slowed it down just a hair.
I have Derek Roddy's video. Living in Florida has it's advantages because Derek's a local, I've known about him for some time.
You're missing the point - the kid, is a kid - not a 35 years old who's been playing for 25 years. That was my whole thing - he's young - and a badass.
Tim
J
jhankedrums
New member
Tim Brown said:
Frankly, i'm not impressed. I've seen mouch younger, play much better.
Tim Brown
New member
jhankedrums said:
Then post some video links of them, because I'd like to see them.
Tim
M
Metal Ist Krieg
New member
jhankedrums said:
Hmm. I don't think its a question of whether or not we "know any better" I've seen all the drummers you're talking about up here, and like Tim, I have most of their videos. Marco is extremely talented... He's got good technique too. He's not the fastest or "best" drummer, but he's quite proficient. See, music is not a competition, but some people "just don't know any better." Let the guy have some props for christ's sake. This thread was generated to show that guy some accolades and respect for his hard work. Every drummer you listed is great with great technique, and every one of them have areas that they could improve on. Comparing Marco to any of these other guys is like comparing apples to oranges. Drums aren't a pissing contest, and this isn't 3rd grade. I'm a huge fan of George Kolias and his work on the nile album is phenominal. Flo is good too, very fast, but he suffers from "dissapearing snare syndrome" when he goes very fast which means he lacks some dynamics control. Derrek Roddy is a great drummer as well, very solid, but not the fastest guy either. The point I'm making here is that each of these guys, marco and the rest of them, bring something to the table. Drums, and music in general isn't a competitive sport. You want to compete, join the olympics... Music is like a picnic.... everyone brings a dish, and everyone gets to eat and enjoy. If you want to see an impressive drummer, I suggest you look up Mike Mangini. He brings a couple of dishes to the picnic. You don't have to like Marco... that's your right and your opinion. And, there's nothing wrong with critiquing the guy's playing. And, you don't have to be impressed either... However, telling people they don't know any better because they actually acknowledge Marco's hard work and obvious intensive practicing may not nessesarily be the best way to approach the situation.
Tim Brown
New member
Metal Ist Krieg said:
+100,000!
That is exactly my point - Marco's got some major chops happening; he's good, and I cen definitely appreciate the amount of time and hard work he has put into getting there.
About Flo M.'s "disappearing snare", that is exactly what was happening - he was flying man, but all of sudden, his snare would disappear, so I thought he would be better if he would slow down a little bit, and start nailing the snare a little harder and consistently.
Tim
J
jhankedrums
New member
Metal Ist Krieg said:
Edit: Its not worth debating with someone who pulls terms out of their ass like "dissapearing snare syndrome".
Why no comments on Evan? Or Virgil?
Last edited:
M
Metal Ist Krieg
New member
Haha... I wouldn't expect you to debate. "Dissappearing snare syndrome" or "dissappearing blast" are commonly used terms in the world of metal drumming... Most, if not all metal drummers go through that phase at least one time in their carreer. Its a common problem and like any problem area has many slang terms attached to it. I'm impressed with flo overall but he has some issues with dynamic control. What's the point of playing something when it can't be heard? Tim's right, if the guy would slow down a little, OR lower the volume of his slower work, he'd be fine... but as it is, its wasted notes if you can't hear them clearly. virgil donati is one of my favorite drummers of all time, and I have not heard enough of evan to have an opinion.
I'm not here to "debate" anyone. However, choosing not to have a "debate" based on the fact that you are unaware of a relatively common term is a thin argument to say the least. BTW, I didn't pull that term out of my ass. The first time I heard that term was in the early 90s and its been around the block quite a few times by now. You're lucky I even addressed your post at all with such assinine comments like "don't know any better".
I'm not here to "debate" anyone. However, choosing not to have a "debate" based on the fact that you are unaware of a relatively common term is a thin argument to say the least. BTW, I didn't pull that term out of my ass. The first time I heard that term was in the early 90s and its been around the block quite a few times by now. You're lucky I even addressed your post at all with such assinine comments like "don't know any better".
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Metal Ist Krieg
New member
I think one of my top favorite drummers is horacio hernandez. I guess it goes without saying, but the guy's ridiculous. Him, Mike Mangini, Donati, are probably my favorites... They seem to be top of their game. As far as straight metal drummers, I don't have a "favorite" but I'm most impressed by Dave Suzuki, the guitar player for vital remains. He plays drums on most of the albums... and its very fast, relatively technical drumming. Its nice and solid, pretty good control, etc... not what you'd expect from someone who's known for his lead guitar work.
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jhankedrums
New member
Metal Ist Krieg said:
Relatively common term to whom? I've been in the drumming scene/community for 15 years and this is the first time ive heard the term.
The "dont know any better" comment was directed towards people who assume that speed (in this case, blasting) = skill.
How can you tell me that the video originally posted is in any way "awww inspiring"? How can you tell me that his technique is "solid", when infact hes doing a basic blast, with a gravity thrown in for good measure?
"I havent heard enough of Evan to have an opinion." You havent heard enough of Evan through the video to form an opnion, but you've seen enough of the blast video to assume this guy is solid, with great technique. Please, dont feed me that garbage.
You obviously listen to metal. You obviously know who Hellhammer, Inferno, and Nick Barker are. Are you going to tell me that these guys dont have control, speed, or technique?
My point is, how are you going to defend a video such as the one posted, but say any of the drummers listed has room to improve?
F
fritzmusic
Member
jhankedrums, are you finished alienating the rest of us who liked the Vornegar clip? 
M
Metal Ist Krieg
New member
Man, when you miss a point you make sure to miss it thoroughly and completely. I've seen the vornagar video... but I also have their other material... their finished recordings. Marco's a great drummer... and like the others, there's areas he could improve in. Any drummer can improve. But to counterpoint your point, blasting and speed DOES equal skill. It equals skill in that field of drumming. It takes time and lots of practice to develop good dynamics control and speed. that's not the only aspect of drumming, but you still have to work at it to get good at it. I'm not taking away from any of the drummers you posted, but like marco, every drummer has areas they could work on, including myself and any other drummer. Mike Mangini is one of my faves as is Neal Peart, and they both have areas they're weak in. Every drummer does... Do you only read half of someone's post then reply, or do you read the whole thing and only see what you want? BTW, the only drummer I really singled out for improvement was flo, if you had read my post in its entirety. Marco's got skill, he's obviously been working on his chops for some time, and their album is a good album. Its a good metal album with good drumming and good guitars... I have most of the Cryptopsy albums, and there's loads of good drumming on them. Oh, and since you've not heard the term, that must make it invalid then. I never said Marco's video was 'awe inspiring'. And I'm defending it because he's doing a good job. I suggest you re-read my posts and take some notes before you reply again.
M
Metal Ist Krieg
New member
Another thing to remember is every drummer you mentioned is either in a signed band or has done session work with signed bands and has a shitload of stage and studio experience... That's why its comparing apples to oranges... Marco's a relatively green drummer... And he's still good. He's probably only been playing 6-10 years, and flo and george have been playing how long? That's why I defend him against your argument, because you don't have an argument.
J
jhankedrums
New member
Metal Ist Krieg said:
How do I not have an argument? You made it one when you proceeded to tell me that every drummer I listed needed improvement, right after complimenting Marco.
Until he showes me something spectacular, hes just another bland drummer playing the same things weve all seen before. You're trying to turn it an apples and oranges argument. Marco is an apple playing orange music, except hes young. Who cares how young he is? You say hes advanced for his age, hell, Flo's advanced for his age, Virgil is advanced for his age. Technique is going to scale accordingly, on how long a person plays. Hes got his technique down for blasting, good for him. Meg White has her technique down for playing like shit, good for her.
M
Metal Ist Krieg
New member
I'm not saying he's advanced for his age... I'm just saying his technique is solid, and that he's a good drummer and virtually every other person posting on this thread agrees... You came on making it an argument by bashing the guy and then telling everyone they think he's good because they don't know any better... Yes, marco could do some improvement... but so can every drummer. Buddy rich is about the only drummer that is difficult to critique... But in the field of extreme metal, there's alot of blasts and double bass... A.K.A. alot of repetition... That doesn't mean that he's not doing anything original... He's got some nice stops and breaks going, and his fills are really nice... especially considering he's using alot of double stroke rolls, which isn't very common in extreme drumming. In other words, he's "serving the song" giving the song what it needs to drive along. I suggest you listen to the rest of his work, its very well done. George does the same thing over and over for 10 straight songs on the new nile album... you don't seem to have a problem with his work... and, he also serves the songs in question. Darren Cesca does alot of repetition, but he also peppers in quite a bit of originality in his drumming too. I'm defending the guy because you're acting like the guy sucks or something and he definitely does not suck. His timing is great, his strokes are solid, his dynamic control is on point, he's fast, and consistent. My argument is reactionary. But my argument stands pretty tall against yours. Sorry dude, that's just how it breaks this time. Better luck next time. What are your favorite drummers, by the way?
noisedude
New member
LMAO!!! The kid was twelve years old - there's no such thing as "much younger" than that!!!jhankedrums said:
Or if you mean the guy from the first clip ... he ain't exactly knocking on purgatory's door either. Are you telling me you'd like to be the guy who goes on after these two who is maybe 5% 'better' but is 20 - 30 years older?!?!
M
Metal Ist Krieg
New member
That's exactly my point... Its not about age, or how long someone has been playing so much as what they bring to the table.... Some people just don't get that music isn't a competitive sport...noisedude said:LMAO!!! The kid was twelve years old - there's no such thing as "much younger" than that!!!
Or if you mean the guy from the first clip ... he ain't exactly knocking on purgatory's door either. Are you telling me you'd like to be the guy who goes on after these two who is maybe 5% 'better' but is 20 - 30 years older?!?!
For more of Marco's work, you can see him at
myspace.com/vornagar
or
myspace.com/atrocioushysteria
I think he has more bands too...
And you can see him playing with Vital Remains from his personal website myspace.com/lordmarc0 Its the vid links that are saying he's playing in europe. Check em out.
noisedude
New member
Believe me mate, I sell instruments for a living ... guitar is another that can be extremely competitive and intimidating for a beginner. I do my best to help them chill out by demonstrating my diabolical Hendrix riffs and Coldplay chord sequences!!!
The reason I'm not any better at guitar is because I can already do more or less exactly what I want to do with it - I can play enough different ways to make the music that accompanies my songs. I can't shred -- and I sure as hell can't do heel-toe or even a thoroughly convincing double-stroke roll on a kit -- but I play my style, how I want it to ... and I enjoy it a lot (and so do the people at my gigs!!).
The quest for speed and precision bores me senseless ... if you are going for it, you need it in a credible musical situation, not just for the sake of it like someone like Joe Satriani.
The reason I'm not any better at guitar is because I can already do more or less exactly what I want to do with it - I can play enough different ways to make the music that accompanies my songs. I can't shred -- and I sure as hell can't do heel-toe or even a thoroughly convincing double-stroke roll on a kit -- but I play my style, how I want it to ... and I enjoy it a lot (and so do the people at my gigs!!).
The quest for speed and precision bores me senseless ... if you are going for it, you need it in a credible musical situation, not just for the sake of it like someone like Joe Satriani.
Tim Brown
New member
jhankedrums said:
Okay jhankedrums,
Let's see a video of YOU doing the exact same "basic blast beat with a gravity thrown in".
I've been playing drums coming up on 30 years this year, and I'm not sure that I can play the "gravity blast" like Marco does it. Admittedly, I don't play Extreme metal - I do listen to a few extreme metal bands, such as Mayhem ,Dimmu Borgir, Necrophagist... I prefer to play music with operatic singers, but I did learn how to do the Johnny Rabb one-handed roll - although, I really have no use for it other than as a trick.
So, why did I post the link to the video?
Because I think that Marco is a good drummer. Yes, it was to sing his praises, but you've come on here and acted like an ass because I like him.
So, let's see a video of you playing the exact same thing that Marco did, at the exact same tempo.
Tim
M
Metal Ist Krieg
New member
Haha, Tim's got a point there... By the way, Marco's 20 years old and already toured the world. He toured the world in one of my favorite bands!! haha... You may not like what he did for Vornagar but the Vital Remains set has alot of drumming in it.. and you've got to have your shit together before they'll even consider having you sit behind the kit... That's GOT to sting... 20, flawless one hander, loads of endurance... plays in signed bands around the world... has numerous projects... If that doesn't impress you, nothing will impress you. It honestly sounds like this jhanke guy/girl is pissed off because they've been in the drumming community for a long time but don't have forum threads posted about their drum work... Again, that's GOT to sting... But only if you see music as some kind of pissing contest or competition... To the rest of us its a no brainer to give praise to those who are good at what they do.
The green slime of envy seems to have striken in this case.
The green slime of envy seems to have striken in this case.