Yamaha S80 and sending midi program changes

[warble2]

Hey all,
I have a S80 which I use as my main controller. I've been able to work my way through a few things in regards to midi and controller settings, but am having some problems with sending program change messages to my Roland XV-3080. The XV-3080 is receiving the messages fine, but when I select one of the sixteen program buttons on the S80, it will switch the Roland to the GM bank, and select patches in non-single increments (button 1 on the S80 selects patch 3 on the Roland, button 2 on the S80 selects patch 5 on the Roland, etc.)

I have the S80 set (MIDI Sw) to BankSel "On" and PgmChng "On", and have switched the BankSel to "Off" and back. I think the Roland is setup properly as well as it is receiving the messages.

Anything I might be missing here? I popped open the S80 manual yesterday and believe me, that wasn't written to be of much help. The XV-3080 manual is written a bit better IMO.

Any ideas welcome. Just want to be able to (in increments of 1) select patches in one back on my Roland via my S80. I'll be using the USER bank on the Roland where all my commonly used gig patches will be stored. Right now, I'm stuck in the GM bank when using the S80 to switch.

 

[ssscientist]

when I select one of the sixteen program buttons on the S80, it will switch the Roland to the GM bank, and select patches in non-single increments (button 1 on the S80 selects patch 3 on the Roland, button 2 on the S80 selects patch 5 on the Roland, etc.)

The solution is in how the S80 programs are set up. There is a way to change each of the sixteen programs --- or any of the programs in the machine --- to send whatever program change command you want.

I have a pdf copy of the S80 manual that I downloaded just to help you with this problem, and I agree that it covers a lot of ground that's way more advanced than the simple program change mapping you're looking for.

Is your intention only to get this S80/XV-3080 combination working together so you can play live? If so, do you need splits, layers or zones coming out of either synth? Are you ever planning to do any sequencing using the internal S80 sequencer or an external computer program?



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[warble2]

The solution is in how the S80 programs are set up. There is a way to change each of the sixteen programs --- or any of the programs in the machine --- to send whatever program change command you want.

I have a pdf copy of the S80 manual that I downloaded just to help you with this problem, and I agree that it covers a lot of ground that's way more advanced than the simple program change mapping you're looking for.

Is your intention only to get this S80/XV-3080 combination working together so you can play live? If so, do you need splits, layers or zones coming out of either synth? Are you ever planning to do any sequencing using the internal S80 sequencer or an external computer program?

Thanks for checking into the manual. My intention is to just get the S80/XV-3080 working together live. No splits, layers or zones, just single patch changes. Seems like the S80 would be capable of this, but I can't seen to get it figured out.

 

[ssscientist]

Read page 57 of your S80 manual -- the page should be titled 'Using as a Master Keyboard (Performance Mode)'. If it's not page 57 then it should be somewhere close,

Then skip to page 129 --- that should be the page that tells you where to enter the Bank Select MSB (Most Significant Byte) and Bank Select LSB (Least Significant Byte) and the program change command.

Here's where you'll need to refer to the XV-3080 manual because different manufacturers have different schemes on just how to implement MSB/LSB numbers. Find the bank you want to use in the XV-3080 manual and put the MSB/LSB numbers in the appropriate S80 screen. Then save this Performance as Bank H, Performance #16 and title it 'XV-3080 PrgChg' or whatever you want that will remind you what it is. When you want to build a layer with the Roland copy this to, let's say, Bank A Performance #1 and change the Program Change number to the sound you want the Roland to play.

If any of this doesn't work or you still can't get the program changes in sync, post again.


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[SonicAlbert]

Sounds like you might have a couple issues going there.

If the S80 is capable of saving patch maps you might have an old one messing you up. This could cause the non-sequential selection of patches. A patch map is where you want patch one to send program change 37, patch two to send program change 3, etc., for example.

The real issue has nothing to do with the S80 though, it is a setting in the 3080 that you need to adjust. I've run into this many times with my 5080.

You can disable the 3080's reception of bank changes in the system midi menu, which is what you should do. Turn "bank select" off. The menu might be a bit different on your 3080 than it is in my 5080, but that's the general idea. This should solve your issue.

 

[ssscientist]

The real issue has nothing to do with the S80 though, it is a setting in the 3080 that you need to adjust. I've run into this many times with my 5080.

You can do it that way too, but it's a temporary hack to set the reception side of the program change equation to match what's being transmitted.

The permanent fix lies in the transmission side and that means the S80.

That's why you've 'run into (it) many times' --- you've used a band aid on a chronic fissure in your midi knowledge.


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[warble2]

ssscientist, thanks for taking time to assist. I'm planning on maybe digging into the S80 a bit tomorrow. I've never used it in Master Keyboard mode, and it looks to have some solid functionality in this aspect. I'll just need to get deeper into MIDI for my needs - which is absolutely fine! My goal is to get the best use out of my gear, and heck, I'm learning some good stuff as I go along.

I did change the RX bank select to off on the Roland, and although the patches did change the way I'd hoped, I still want to dig in and use the S80's master keyboard functionality. I think I'm grasping this concept for what I'm hoping to do.

 

[ssscientist]

As one of my old bosses used to say, thank you for thanking me.

Good luck with getting the two to communicate properly --- they are powerful synths in their own right but together they make a monsterass combo.


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[SonicAlbert]

You can do it that way too, but it's a temporary hack to set the reception side of the program change equation to match what's being transmitted.

The permanent fix lies in the transmission side and that means the S80.

That's why you've 'run into (it) many times' --- you've used a band aid on a chronic fissure in your midi knowledge.


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A rude response like that was not necessary, I was just trying to help the guy and apparently did so. It's sad that you feel the need to lash out like that for no reason.

I use my 5080 with a number of controllers, so it makes sense to disable the bank change reception in the 5080 rather than mess with the innards of whatever controller I happen to have at my disposal. And it's not a temporary hack or a "fix", but a feature that Roland thoughtfully included in the synth for the very purpose for which I am using it. Why not use this feature of the 5080 when the desired result can be achieved by a single button-press?

I do music for a living, and often am under deadline pressures and in situations where solutions need to come fast. Tweaking around with sysex messages in the S80 is great if you are sitting at home and have plenty of spare time to play around with it. But if the *same result* can be achieved in a single button press in an instant, how can this be considered a "chronic fissure in midi knowledge"?

Cute phrase by the way...

 

[ssscientist]

A rude response like that was not necessary, I was just trying to help the guy and apparently did so. It's sad that you feel the need to lash out like that for no reason.

I must have hit a nerve.

I didn't mean my response to be rude, just factual.

It's sad that you feel the need to scream 'I am important' whenever you feel challenged.

I respect your willingness to help but am embarrassed for you when you post such a defensive screed in response to a mild disagreement over getting two keyboards to communicate properly.

Let's agree to disagree and leave the implication that you're a busy musician and I'm just a guy with a lot of time on his hands out of this.


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[SonicAlbert]

There's nothing to agree or disagree on. You made an unnecessary snide remark in my direction and I had every right to respond to it. That's not being defensive.

Also, I made no comments regarding any sense of self-importance whatsoever, just "factual" as you like to say. In other words, when time is of the essence and immediate results are of primary importance in a professional situation, a simple quick solution is a good solution.

And again, whether you disable the sysex message at the controller or disable the reception of it at the module, the result is *exactly* the same.