XLR or 1/4" plug, mic cables. . .?

[studiodrum]

Hey everyone,
just a quick question, . .I have a crappy Audio Technica (Unidirectional dynamic-- impedance 500 ohms) mic that we are going to use for scratch vocals-- It came with an XLR to 1/4" phone plug, mic cable.

But, I was wondering can I use an XLR to XLR mic cable, to connect it to the mixer? I mean does it matter, what type of mic cable connecter is used if your mixer supports both?

Thanks guys . . . .

 

[studiodrum]

anyone, anyone, . . Bueller. . . ?

Does anyone know if it matters, whether I use either an XLR, or 1/4" mic cable on any mic, . . or is the connector specific to certain types of mics?

I know that its a 'brain-damaged' question, . .But, I juts wanted to be sure

 

[Phyl]

This is actually a pretty good question because the answer depends on the equipment you're connecting the microphone to.

Equipment that uses combo Neutrik jacks (xlr and 1/4" TRS in one jack) often differentiate between whether a xlr or 1/4" plug is inserted. Often times the preamplifier gain stage and 48V phantom power aren't engaged unless a xlr plug is inserted. When a 1/4" plug is inserted they assume the signal to be line level.

Phantom power isn't an issue for you since you've got a dynamic mic, but you do need the preamp gain stage.

If your equipment has separate 1/4" and xlr inputs, you'll need to read the manual to find out if the 1/4" input goes through the preamp gain stage. If you don't have the manual, just try the 1/4" input; it should be pretty apparent if the gain stage isn't there.

There's probably a standard convention emplyed by all mixers in this regard, but I don't know what it is.

Clear as mud?

 

[studiodrum]

Okay, . .I see now. . .

So, if the mixer that I'm using DOES NOT supply (pre-amp gain) to the 1/4" jack, . . then you wont be able to use that microphone with the 1/4" plug, and you would need to get and XLR to XLR cable, . .so that you can insert the mic into the XLR input of the mixer, in order to kick in the pre-amp. . .

But, if the board DOES supply pre-amp gain to the 1/4" jacks-- then the mic WILL work properly. . . . Did I get that right, . .is that pretty much the skinny. . ?

 

[Big Kenny]

What board is it?

 

[Phyl]

So, if the mixer that I'm using DOES NOT supply (pre-amp gain) to the 1/4" jack, . . then you wont be able to use that microphone with the 1/4" plug, and you would need to get and XLR to XLR cable, . .so that you can insert the mic into the XLR input of the mixer, in order to kick in the pre-amp. . .

But, if the board DOES supply pre-amp gain to the 1/4" jacks-- then the mic WILL work properly. . . . Did I get that right, . .is that pretty much the skinny. . ?

---------Yup----------

 

[Richard Monroe]

Phyl, I think you missed something. Some technogeek can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 500 ohms is a high-z mic. Studiodrum- In ancient times (1960's-1970's, etc) there was such a thing as a high impedence (high-z) mic.
Although they usually had XLR outs, the cable terminated in a 1/4" TS plug. There is such a thing as a high-z to low-z transformer, but generally you plug a high-z mic into a DI box and then into a line in, or just plug the mic into an insrument/guitar jack.-Richie

 

[Phyl]

Phyl, I think you missed something. Some technogeek can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think 500 ohms is a high-z mic. Studiodrum- In ancient times (1960's-1970's, etc) there was such a thing as a high impedence (high-z) mic.
Although they usually had XLR outs, the cable terminated in a 1/4" TS plug. There is such a thing as a high-x to low-z transformer, but generally you plug a high-z mic into a DI box and then into a line in, or just plug the mic into an insrument/guitar jack.-Richie

Good catch Richard.

 

[A Reel Person]

Use either.

The Tascam 424mkII's XLR and 1/4" input jacks both go through the preamp stage. Use whatever cable is handy, but if you have >20 ft. mic cable run, then consider the XLR/XLR cable. The XLR-1/4" cable is adequate for a single cable run, appx < 12-15 ft. /DA

What board is this?

 

[Richard Monroe]

Reel Person- If it's a high-z mic, it's not looking for a mic input. It's looking for a guitar jack.-Richie

 

[A Reel Person]

Good technical point, Richie.

And, so is the reason it's fitted with a 1/4" plug on the end.

The 424mkII's XLR and 1/4" inputs are parallel, going through the exact same stages, so the difference is net_zero, 'cept the mic itself. The 424mkII's 1/4" inputs are geared toward Hi-Z inputs, so use them and the supplied mic cable. The biggest difference in response & mic sensitivity on the 424mkII, being manipulated with the TRIM control.

Thanx for the quick pickup on the reply!!/DA

 

[Richard Monroe]

However, a line in is *not* a high-z input, although it's much closer than a low-z mic input. If it was, we wouldn't use DI boxes to plug guitars into line inputs, we'd just plug the guitar into the line input. And the truth is, a guitar/instrument input isn't exactly the same as a high-z mic input, but it's as close as it comes on most modern equipment. If you plug a high-z mic into a line input, you'll get some signal through, but with lots of noise and loss of signal. Repeat- it's not looking for a mic input. It is also not looking for a line input. It's looking for an instrument/guitar jack, which is neither of the above, and you *can't* plug it into a mixing board without an instrument jack, a DI box, or a hi-z to lo-z mic transformer.-Richie

 

[A Reel Person]

I don't want to bore you guys in the MIC forum, but...

quoting from the Tascam 424mkIII manual:...

MIC/LINE INPUTS: These are the input jacks for the mixer channels. Primarily, the 3-contact, XLR-type connectors are for connection to balanced microphones, and the 1/4" jacks are for line-level, unbalanced signal sources (such as electronic instruments). But you can also connect lower-level signals (down to -50 dbV) to these 1/4" jacks and use the TRIM control to amplify them. [NOTE: DO NOT use both the XLR and 1/4" jacks in the same channel at one time. Disconnect one when the other is used].

It goes on to say in the functional examples:...

1. Have on hand a dynamic mic and set of stereo headphones.
2. Plug the 1/4" plug on your microphone cable into the leftmost MIC/LINE IN jack for channel 1.
...
7. Raise the channel fader to "7" on the scale.
8. Raise the Master fader to "7".
...
10. While speaking into the microphone, turn the TRIM control on channel 1 to the right/MIC until the monitor level meter reads "0" on average.

--------------
I usually hate when people quote out of manuals, so that's the extent of my quote, and I'll let it go, at that. I assume Studiodrum has the 424mkII manual, and can read it himself. If not, I'd suggest going to the Tascam website and downloading the 424mkIII manual, for reference. The MkII and MKIII are mostly the same, with some minor differences.

Beyond that, I don't believe plugging any 1/4" mic/line input directly into a Portastudio's mixer section ever required a direct box.

SEE: http://www.tascam.com/Products/424mkIII.html

---------------

 

[Richard Monroe]

Well, I'll split the difference with you, Reel. It will probably work, more or less, and will produce a noise floor that would be unacceptable for any critical recording, but we are, after all, talking about a talkback mic. I don't belive that playng with the gain trim on a portastudio lin/mic input will correct the impedence mismatch involved. However, I also believe in empirical research. Plug the mic in, and do what Reel Person says. The results will either be acceptable, or they won't. I doubt you'll blow anything up. It's easier to just do that than bury the question in technical stuff which is of limited value in the real universe. Let us know if it works. I freely admit I understand high-z mics a lot better than I understand portastudios.-Richie

 

[A Reel Person]

Thank you, and I respect your knowledgable input on things!

Anyway, on a Tascam Portastudio 424mkII, we're talking about 90db overall dynamic range, max, with dbx engaged, so I don't think we're challenging the >110db noise floor of today's most modern digital equipment.

In other words, the difference of Hi-Z/Lo-Z or XLR-vs-1/4" LINE IN, (in practical terms), if there at all, will be nil.

 

[Richard Monroe]

I just went back over the posts, and at no point did Studiodrum indicate what board he has. Reel Person, I'm happy that your Tascam has variable impedence inputs which may or may not be able to accomodate a high-z mic. The question is this- STUDIODRUM- What board are you using, and does it have any inputs that are labeled "instrument", "guitar", or "high-z"?-Richie

 

[A Reel Person]

True enough,...

but from many previous discussions in the Tascam forum, it's been established that Drum's using a 424mkII. Sorry to cut to the chase on'ya, without clarifying that reference.

He's also using a Yamaha MG 12/4 as an outboard front end, but my main replies were speaking directly to the Tascam. I have no definitive reference on the Yamaha MG 12/4.

Thanx again!

 

[studiodrum]

Yeah, 'Reels' got my number, . . !

He knows my equipment all too well. . . . . .and Yes, I was talking about a Tascam 424 MkII board. . . I apologize for leaving that critical piece of the puzzle out-- It might have shed more light on the question. . .

I was planning on posting the fact that I was using a 424 mkII, since 'Big Ken' asked "what board is it". . .But, 'Reel' beat me to it. . . !

But, thanks for all the useful information everyone-- Now, I wont be afraid of blowing- up my board, by using different types of mic cable connectors! Thanks again, guys, sorry for the confusion.

PS I need to check my Yamaha MG 12/4, and see if it has any inputs that are labeled "instrument", "guitar", or "high-z" . . .

 

[Richard Monroe]

Thanks, reel. No dedicated high-z inputs on either board, so it's either going to work your way or not. I know I've seen hi-z to lo-z mic transformers at GC, but all I can find on line is the other way around.-Richie

 

[A Reel Person]

Sure,...

anyway, for a standard cable run, 12ft or less, the difference would be negligible, all the way around.

I have a mic cable that's XLR/F-to-1/4"M , and it works fine. It is adapting an XLR/Balanced connection to Unbalanced (straight-out, at the point of the connector), for a standard 12' Unbalanced cable run to 1/4" plug,

It's when you want to stretch your cable runs over 20' that unbalanced cable runs get noisier.

I think with the range of the Trim on the Tascam Portastudio's mixers, you could match impedance pretty well, for this type of source. LowZ mic, HiZ mic, & instrument, alike.

Thanx again.