"Winter" - alternative

andrushkiwt

New member
Rerecorded an older song with my new sims, Lecto and Recab's Oversize. I am currently playing with mic selections within Recabinet and I'm giving further separation by using one mic on the L channel and another on the R (in addition to a separate take for each). This track was compressed a bit more than usual for me, I had some tom, kick and snare peaks that were messing up my limiting, so there's 1.4db of peak reduction, max, via the 2 bus compressor (it acts mostly on the previously mentioned instruments). The limiter is giving +4.2db with a -0.01 threshold. This is all, of course, to make it loud enough where ppl don't immediately skip it if it comes up on their playlist for lack of volume (once a week someone mentions to me that one of my tracks is super quiet). The compression is most obvious, to me, at 2:43. I know I should have programmed the drums more appropriately in volume there, but other "100%" hits don't seem as loud...not sure why those are jumping out so much. That far right floor tom is loud as heck in the NY Avatar kit compared to the other toms. My reason for using the compressor plus the limiter was to catch any peaks and slightly tame them first, with the compressor, so that the limiter can simply push up the quieter sections without hitting much of a wall. I'm not sure how transparent of a job I've done, but I wouldn't be surprised if comments suggested to tame the peaks first and that the compressor won't react so harsh to them. See, i've already learned and not a comment yet!

I tried a verb on the snare for the first time, and I really like it. It's the "drum booth" preset in Studio One that I modified to my liking. Vocals have a saturation knob barely functioning but giving a little lift. There's a little bump to the 2 bus around 10khz, on a slope, for some air I thought it needed. Sounded good on the hats to me too. Vocals are compressed hard, up to 8.5db reduction at peaks during the chorus - are they more intelligible this time? Last few tracks had comments about lifting them up and compressing them harder.

Composition-wise, this is definitely more of my own art type rock, not something that has much pop influence. It's my personal favorite, deep, and hopefully desperate sounding and passionate.



I know this all too well,
slowly drifting into a casual spell,
but it has just begun to show what we live for -
Separating all the things and sinking in,
we’re sinking in too deep.

Away from, away from time is all
that we ever really need…
as I open to bleed.
Wait for…

What’d you want to wait for? The fall to become winter?
What’d you run away for? The silence I disguise?

A black dress on the stairs, moving backwards into where
there’s something cold, it’s always cold.
Let’s dream this one more time, moving forward on a line,
the day I sold, the day I sold.

Away from time is all we ever need. As I open to bleed. Wait for…

Moving all the stars.
 

Robus

New member
Composition, arrangement and performance are excellent as always. I'm not crazy about the echo on the vocal. Despite the processing, there's a dullness to the sound of the lead vocal. Maybe a little presence boost? Not sure. Some strange jumps in the level of the guitars going into your second verse, don't know if that's intentional. Bass could come up for me, especially during the chorus. Your voice tends to drop out when you get low in your range. Just needs a little automation to bring it up, definitely not more compression.
 

andrushkiwt

New member
Composition, arrangement and performance are excellent as always. I'm not crazy about the echo on the vocal. Despite the processing, there's a dullness to the sound of the lead vocal. Maybe a little presence boost? Not sure. Some strange jumps in the level of the guitars going into your second verse, don't know if that's intentional. Bass could come up for me, especially during the chorus. Your voice tends to drop out when you get low in your range. Just needs a little automation to bring it up, definitely not more compression.

I love the vocal delays, i just get bored listening to the bridge without them...instead of the approach of adding delays later as a filler, the bridge delays were in mind during writing. Is it the sound of the delay or the fact they're there at all?

I do know what you mean about the guitar volumes in the second verse...i think the louder part is the heavy set, wide panned, doing one last strum before bowing out for the verse. They are louder than the verse guitars, so I think they stick out too much at the beginning of it. Funny you say the bass could come up...i had two versions before this one with the bass louder. I just anticipated comments about turning it down some. oh well, figures. and i do spend considerable time not automating but manually adjusting volumes for vocals. I like quiet verses with loud choruses, so yeah it's always a challenge.
 

cakewalkKaKed

HOORAY FOR BOOBIES !!!
your stuffs bloody great (specially "your sympathy")... imo could do with some "air"

this thing is very similar to Maag .. but free KVR: Luftikus by lkjb - EQ VST Plugin and Audio Units Plugin for Windows and Mac OS X (keep gain function is handy for "does that really sound any better or is it louder" comparisons)

try it on a guitar buss (first) ... for now leave the other knobs flat (just the 1 turny and pressies on the end :D) and try the 5,10,20,40 buttons and lil boost ;) ...


imo gentle use of this will add that lil bit of polish that i feel is missing ... your mixes do lack a bit of clarity and could benefit from a more punchy bottom end


don't get me wrong,i am in no way knocking your stuff,it really is fooking good ...
 

Robus

New member
Maybe it's just the the delay, period, that I'm not crazy about. I came of age musically in the 80s when every vocal was drenched in reverb and delay. When I hear that delay at the end of a vocal line, it just sounds dated to me. But that's me.

I also find myself self-censoring when it comes to bass. I don't get overly invested in my guitar parts--whatever works in the song is fine--but bass I really care about. My natural inclination is to turn up the bass until it's too loud. I know that, so I overcompensate and turn it down, then get told it's too low. It's also hard to judge bass when my listening environment is less than ideal.
 

andrushkiwt

New member
your stuffs bloody great (specially "your sympathy")... imo could do with some "air"

this thing is very similar to Maag .. but free KVR: Luftikus by lkjb - EQ VST Plugin and Audio Units Plugin for Windows and Mac OS X (keep gain function is handy for "does that really sound any better or is it louder" comparisons)

try it on a guitar buss (first) ... for now leave the other knobs flat (just the 1 turny and pressies on the end :D) and try the 5,10,20,40 buttons and lil boost ;) ...


imo gentle use of this will add that lil bit of polish that i feel is missing ... your mixes do lack a bit of clarity and could benefit from a more punchy bottom end


don't get me wrong,i am in no way knocking your stuff,it really is fooking good ...

I'm PM'ing you...just a heads up, ha
 

andrushkiwt

New member
It's also hard to judge bass when my listening environment is less than ideal.

i hear ya, i'm still using headphones for mixing and my car system/work buds to check them on. Have you seen my "studio"? lol. there's a picture of it in the "Show me your studio" thread within Studio Building. check it out if you want a good laugh....!
 

Robus

New member
Thanks, I buy guitars rarely and never sell. My philosophy is to buy the good stuff since it is a lifetime investment. Of all you see there, the Jazz, Tele, and SG get the most play. I've been playing a bit more acoustic lately too.

Sorry, don't want to derail your thread.
 

andrushkiwt

New member
Thanks, I buy guitars rarely and never sell. My philosophy is to buy the good stuff since it is a lifetime investment. Of all you see there, the Jazz, Tele, and SG get the most play. I've been playing a bit more acoustic lately too.

Sorry, don't want to derail your thread.

no worries, i derailed my own... :facepalm:
 

60's guy

Member
I can't comment on the mix because my ears are really worn out, BUT, I can tell you that Winter is an excellent song! The music and vocal presentation (phrasing) is very well structured.:thumbs up:
 

TripleM

New member
I thought this was excellent. Tone on everything sounds great to me. Not a small amount of reverb/delay, but it worked well on this.

My only nit is on the cymbals. The crashes sound a bit on the cheap side. A real quick decay. But that's a small issue.

Really good.
 

andrushkiwt

New member
I can't comment on the mix because my ears are really worn out, BUT, I can tell you that Winter is an excellent song! The music and vocal presentation (phrasing) is very well structured.:thumbs up:

Hey thank you! Yeah it's pretty different in phrasing and it was fun trying to find some words to fit in nicely. the melody was written before any lyrics. Means a lot to me, thank you
 

andrushkiwt

New member
I thought this was excellent. Tone on everything sounds great to me. Not a small amount of reverb/delay, but it worked well on this.

My only nit is on the cymbals. The crashes sound a bit on the cheap side. A real quick decay. But that's a small issue.

Really good.

Ok cool thanks. Does it sound like compression settings/release on the cymbals need tweaking, or the cymbals in general? They are the stock cymbals in the NY Avatar kit for Superior Drummer. I bought Metal Machine for the better cymbals but I find the X Drum feature a huge pain. That's the tool to substitute pieces from other kits.
 

TripleM

New member
Ok cool thanks. Does it sound like compression settings/release on the cymbals need tweaking, or the cymbals in general?

I'm not a programmed drums expert. But it sounded to me like the cymbals in general. The decay seems un-natural - it just falls off a cliff.
 

easlern

Boredom artist
Especially like the intro vocals, good performance. I think there's more of a contrast between the quieter and louder parts on this one, it's really nice. Mixwise I don't have a lot to say, it sounds like a good mix to me. Everything's balanced well, I think the cymbals could use a little more weight, they seem a bit deemphasized. Another solid effort. :thumbs up:
 

andrushkiwt

New member
Especially like the intro vocals, good performance. I think there's more of a contrast between the quieter and louder parts on this one, it's really nice. Mixwise I don't have a lot to say, it sounds like a good mix to me. Everything's balanced well, I think the cymbals could use a little more weight, they seem a bit deemphasized. Another solid effort. :thumbs up:

Yeah stupid cymbals! I need to fix those and/or just replace them with the metal machine ones. What drum program do you use easlern?
 
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