Which mic to buy?

[afinepoint]

I would like to make live in-home recordings of my daughter's violin playing. A local music store says I need microphones, preamps etc. About $400 worth of equipment. Radio shack says his $40 to $80 microphones will do the job.

I will use a Technics 1500RS 10.5" reel to reel.

I just want accurate recording and reproduction at minimal cost. Nothing fancy or professional.

Reg

 

[Han]

Has this R to R machine mic inputs? If it does it won't have phantom power (for powering condenser mics), so you would need either a hi end dynamic mic like the Sennheiser MD441, which isn't cheap, or a condenser mic that will work on a battery, like the Rode NT3 for example.

An AKG C1000S will work on a battery as well, but this mic will give you a crappy violin sound (talking experience here).

If the machine has only line ins, you'll need a mic pre like a small mixing board or 'stand alone' mic pre's.

In that case you probably have phantom power and you can use any condenser mic.

There are many inexpensive condenser mics that will sound decent on a violin.

I would advise you to perform a search for violin recording on this board.

Hope this helps.

 

[afinepoint]

Han,

It has mic inputs.

Reg

 

[mixsit]

There are some fairly decent low cost mics around that will do ok depending on how serious you want to go with it. Look for a pair that are fairly flat at least as a starter. Many mics have a seriously hyped high end (fine for 'speech') that could be impressive at first but end up sounding pretty funky.
Does the deck have line-ins too? You'll need them if you go for the external preamp.
Good hunting.
Wayne

 

[Han]

Han,

It has mic inputs.

Reg

Reg, if your goal is to make a decent sounding recording of your daughter's playing, you may get good results with a Radio Shack PZM.

A really prof sounding result will require a much more expensive microphone like a ribbon or neutral sounding condenser, but you also have to figure out the best placement.

And a PZM is not critical about placement, you just put it on the table and you will have a very decent sound anyway.

Hope this helps.

 

[afinepoint]

Mixsit,

Yes, it has line 1 and 2 inputs.

Reg

 

[Richard Monroe]

You need a nicrophone and a preamp. Depending on how old the tape deck is, it may be looking for a high impedence mic, also called high-Z, which are rarely used anymore. Line level remains unchanged, so you need a preamp to change the mic's signal to line level, making the signal much stronger. Your $300-$400 would best be spent on a cheap clean preamp, and a mid-level mic, either a condenser or a dynamic. For a preamp, consider M-Audio Audiobuddy ($80-$100), or M Audio DMP-3, about $200.
For mics, consider a good dynamic, such as Sennheiser MD421, about $200 used on ebay, or any of the following- Auditechnica AT4033, Shure KSM32, Studio Projects C-1, Oktava MK319. The Oktava is $50-100 at Guitar Center only, with price varying according to their mood. The C-1 is about $200, the other 2 about $300, and you tend to get what you pay for.
The last caveat is very important. There aren't just good and bad vocal mics. There are ones you sound good on and ones you don't, and different vocalists will have wildly varying preferences as to what mics they prefer. There is another flaw in your thinking-

"I just want accurate recording and reproduction at minimal cost. Nothing fancy or professional."

Accurate recording and reproduction is a working definition of professional recording. Best of luck.-Richie

 

[afinepoint]

Richard,

Touche!

Reg

P.S It ( sound accuracy) has always been my driving desire in home stereo. What comes out of the loudspeaker must be an exact reproduction of what went into the microphone. No modifications, enhancements, or distortion.

 

[crazydoc]

P.S It ( sound accuracy) has always been my driving desire in home stereo. What comes out of the loudspeaker must be an exact reproduction of what went into the microphone. No modifications, enhancements, or distortion.

That ain't gonna happen, but you can try to get as close as you can.

 

[afinepoint]

It's all we can do.

 

[tdukex]

I agree with Richie's equipment recommendations. The lo-budget mics I would consider are:

Oktava MC012 ($75)
Marshall MXL603s ($75)
Studio Projects B1 ($79)

I was able to get a DMP3 and an Oktava MK012 from Guitar Center for $200 out the door. That would be my first choice for price/performance.

 

[afinepoint]

Guys,

Thanks, you are providing invaluable help. I really appreciate it.

Heres another question. When recording a single source (performer) do you every use two microphones or does spatial sound patterns matter here? I don't know how to better descibe it.

Reg

 

[crazydoc]

Guys,

Thanks, you are providing invaluable help. I really appreciate it.

Heres another question. When recording a single source (performer) do you every use two microphones or does spatial sound patterns matter here? I don't know how to better descibe it.

Reg

Definitely. You can either record in stereo with two of the same (preferably matched) mics, or use the same or different mics at different locations - maybe one close mic'd and the other more distant to capture more ambient or room noise, or one near the fingerboard and another over the body of the instrument. Position to taste.

See this site for some ideas.
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/eng_pub/
see Microphone University.

 

[freshmattyp]

A lot of the time I like a SD condenser up close to the instrument (for me mostly acoustic guitar) and an LD condenser about 2-3 feet away or over the shoulder to capture some of the room noise. This seems to give the recording some space, for lack of a better word. It also helps to record in a decent sounding room. The DMP3 and a pair of Marshall 603's, a pair of Studio Projects B1's or 1 of each mic would give you a great, versatile beginner setup. You could do a lot worse for a whole lot more money.

 

[tdukex]

IMO in solo or in sparse mixes, acoustic guitars sound best when recorded properly with one of the stereo configs or in a spaced pair. I use an MXL603s and an OKtava MC012 together (usually in XY) with great reslults IMO--except for the guitar playing.

Sometimes I'll use three mics with an additional omni LD two - four feet back for room ambience. I have a nice room for that.

 

[Richard Monroe]

Yo finepoint! I think I had a senior moment when I posted yesterday. I gave you advice on a *vocal* mic, and somehow spaced on the fact that we are talking about a violin. The preamps I suggested are fine, but for mics, my first choice would be one or two small diaphragm condenser mics, such as Oktava MC012 ($100 to $165 the pair at Guitar Center) or Marshall MXL603 (about $80 each- various online sources). Get a stereo mic mount (about $10), and do a search on coincedent stereo mic'ing, also called X-Y mic'ing.-Richie

 

[afinepoint]

Any thoughts on the PreSonus Blue TUBE preamp? A salesperson thinks highly of it. Would it work well with the Oktava MC012 or Marshall MXL603?

Reg

 

[Richard Monroe]

It is my personal opinion that the Blue Tube is an excellent doorstop/paperweight. Consider M-Audio DMP-3, the only really cheap preamp I've heard that works.-Richie

 

[chessparov]

IMHO you'd be better off getting something like an Electro-Voice RE15 for a number of reasons;

1) Most likely the "recording room" hasn't had proper acoustical treatment(s)
so a condenser will pick up negative ambience like flutter echoes and
standing waves. This is MUCH more important that "which pre".

2) Usually a microphone without a strong "presence peak" is preferred to
record violin.

3) The RE15's high end rolls off around 13 kHz which will help tame any
screechiness on top notes.

4) The RE15 has tone similar to the RCA 77 ribbon, which is a classic
choice for string instruments for decades.

5) The RE15 has the Variable-D feature that minimizes proximity effect
(boominess) making mic placement much easier.

BTW many great classical recordings were done in mono with one mic.
If you start using more than one mic, be wary of potential phase cancellation
problems.

Also, the new Joe Meek 3Q mic pre/compressor/EQ channel strip is due out within a few weeks. Supposed to be about $200 street price.
You might want to include it in your shortlist of pre's.

Hope this helps.

Chris

 

[afinepoint]

Again, thanks for all of the great advice. I appreciate it. The PreSonus will be dumped from the list. I hadn't thought about the cancellation potential so I may start with one microphone, experiment and get comfortable and then add another later.

If I run into frustration I want it to be because of my inexperience not because I goofed on buying. The prices all look good. I hope to keep the package around $500. More later as my proficiency grows.

Any thoughts on how to go about setting up a room (living space) for recording? Versatility is important as I can not permanently dedicate space solely to recording. That is $$$$ for wall sound deadening and such is out.

Walk in closet? Small bedroom? Outdoors? Borrow a school auditorium? The downstairs has lots of space but also lots of hard reflective and irregular surfaces.

Reg