Which 16 channel mixer with high end preamps?

H

hemmick reef

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I am looking at 16 channel mixers, and wonder what sort of price/make/model would have top quality preamps and eq?

I want to use the hardware mixer with cubase, rather than mix in the box or use a control surface - I want some analog in the chain somewhere and simply want the hands on approach to recording and mixing (if you know what I mean).

The only problem is paying for a mixer with a bunch of preamps when I only really use one or two at a time, but I will need the eq and channels to mix.

Hope this makes sense


Thanks
 
I may be wrong and that's ok but in all my mixer hunting I found absolutely nothing available that wasn't junk for less than two grand. For all the really neat stuff being made for budget level home studios these days nobody is making a mixer worth buying.

Now I'll step off the soap box and try to be useful. Allen and Heath always made good stuff and though I've heard even their quality is lacking these days you may want to give them a shot. Also check out Toft if you have some cash to burn - their new analog series looks impressive.

Try the used market too. There are plenty of good quality board from the last two decades floating around for little money and they are built to last unlike the disposable junk in the stores now.
 
If money is no object, take a look at the Midas Venice line. Top of the line Midas mic-pre's, Midas EQ's, compact footprint.
 
So far the comments above are exactly what I was thinking. In the used market there are some great sub $5000 models that may just need a little TLC, and there are even some smaller ones that will come in at under $2k. The biggest problem here is that some of them will need some work, but that does not always mean expensive work. If you want to get into an MCI, I would give Blevins Audio a look ( www.blevinsaudio.com ).

As for new mixers, I would be looking at either a Toft audio or the Midas Venice. I have a lot of experience with the Midas. It has pretty sweet preamps, but mostly it has a very musical and very responsive EQ.

If you do buy used, I would consider looking into a 24 channel used console. If you only need 16 channels, there is a good chance that a nice used 24 channel will have at least 16 channels on it that will be fully functional and the remaining channels may only have small issues. This way though, you will at lesat have your 16 channels right away until you can get the other issues resolved.
 
The new Toft consoles have a bang-for-the-buck ratio of about 9.4... But you're certainly going to need some decent DA's to make it worthwhile.
 
sort of related to what massive mentioned, if you want to mix digitally recorded tracks on an analog mixer, be ready to dump some serious coin on your conversion...likely as much, if not more, than the mixer itself

also, have you thought of getting 16 channels of outboard pres, along with a dedicated control surface?
 
I've got one of the new Yamaha N12 mixers, and it's incredible! The sound on this thing is so awesome I'm mixing on it....out of the box!

You can run two of them together if you really need too.


The pres on these units are phenomenal. That's the only way I can put it. If you could come over to my studio and hear it in person you will walk away impressed. You could do 24 channels for 3K...you won't beat the sound quality of the N12 at that price. If you can I most certainly want to know about it/:D

http://www.yamahasynth.com/products/n8n12/index.html
 
DAS19 said:
Toft Audio if you have the money. High end preamps.
Click to expand...
I was going to suggest the same... but there hasn't been a lot of buzz about the preamps... kind of marginal from the discussions I've read... The EQ and the summing buss is where the raves are coming from... There's been millions of posts on this new Toft board over on GS... very good reading... and a lot of interesting opinion, on both sides.

I'm a little confused with the original post... Looking for a desk with high end preamps...then finishing with the statement that only one or two channels would be required at a time... really wanting the EQ and mixing capabilities... This is where the Toft just might shine...
 
MOFO Pro said:
I was going to suggest the same... but there hasn't been a lot of buzz about the preamps... kind of marginal from the discussions I've read... The EQ and the summing buss is where the raves are coming from... There's been millions of posts on this new Toft board over on GS... very good reading... and a lot of interesting opinion, on both sides.

I'm a little confused with the original post... Looking for a desk with high end preamps...then finishing with the statement that only one or two channels would be required at a time... really wanting the EQ and mixing capabilities... This is where the Toft just might shine...
Click to expand...

Yes, lots of discussion on the Toft.

Aren't the pres in the Toft based on the Toft ATC-2 pre?
 
DAS19 said:
I could be wrong I thought the pres were good on the toft.
Click to expand...

What I'm hearing from guys who have these boards are that the pres are real good in them. Their still using their high end Neve;s or whatever but the Toft pres get the job done. I haven't heard one myself and it's not like I'm ever going to at the local crap shop called GC.:rolleyes:
 
Further considerations for used consoles, try to find one with removable channel modules. Usually, the first 8 channels are the most beat up. If it's modular you can swap the first 8 with the last 8 if you need to. Plus you can still use the console while you are working on it. If you remove 4 channels to clean the faders and pots, the rest can still be used.
 
I have a new soundCraft MH 3 and am very happy with it:)

You may want to see what SoundCraft has that will fit your needs.
 
If you are only using a couple, why the need for a 16 channel mixer? Toft is my next console, but for a small mixer with pres, I love the Mackie Onyx stuff. I am really interested in the new Yamaha N series too, as they could double as a software controller.

Pete
 
I picked up a 16 channel CAD board for $1200 a few months ago. It sounds pretty great. And its (semi) modular. And inline. And I probably overpaid.
 
therage! said:
What I'm hearing from guys who have these boards are that the pres are real good in them. Their still using their high end Neve;s or whatever but the Toft pres get the job done. I haven't heard one myself and it's not like I'm ever going to at the local crap shop called GC.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Well I hate to comment on gear I don't own... and I usually don't... for just this reason...

There's a ton of people saying everything about this board... that it's a POS... that it has a lot of bugs... that it's the best desk they've ever heard... that the pres are fantastic... and that they're crap... After reading hundreds of post on this desk, from when it was just a gimmer in Alan's eye... I came away with the impression that the real strength in this board was the summing, and the EQ... especially the EQ.

Marginal is a relative term... Are these pres better than what you'd usually find in a small format budget mixer... sure they are... but for the target market... they're something that are being bypassed in favor of outboard preamps... (there are side threads developing on upgrading opamps, and various other mods to improve the exiting toft pres)

I love what I've seen of this board... I've been following it's progress very closely because I will probably own one soon...

Alright, alright... the pres are good... But to the Original posters question... I still wouldn't consider them "High End"...

But what do I know???
 
MOFO Pro said:
Well I hate to comment on gear I don't own... and I usually don't... for just this reason...

There's a ton of people saying everything about this board... that it's a POS... that it has a lot of bugs... that it's the best desk they've ever heard... that the pres are fantastic... and that they're crap... After reading hundreds of post on this desk, from when it was just a gimmer in Alan's eye... I came away with the impression that the real strength in this board was the summing, and the EQ... especially the EQ.

Marginal is a relative term... Are these pres better than what you'd usually find in a small format budget mixer... sure they are... but for the target market... they're something that are being bypassed in favor of outboard preamps... (there are side threads developing on upgrading opamps, and various other mods to improve the exiting toft pres)

I love what I've seen of this board... I've been following it's progress very closely because I will probably own one soon...

Alright, alright... the pres are good... But to the Original posters question... I still wouldn't consider them "High End"...

But what do I know???
Click to expand...

Across all the comments I've seen at GS about the Toft ATB, the balance is way in favour of the "positives" and a fair percentage of the negative comments appear to have come from people who haven't even used one of these consoles but just needed to have a bitch. From all the "positives", there is definitely a lot of praise for the EQ, and I don't recall seeing anyone "bagging" the preamps.

:cool:
 
Well, there's a bit of a question about what constitutes "High End", but I don't think the Toft qualifies in most people's lexicons. Don't get me wrong, the buzz is that it's great "bang for the buck" it's just that it's a rather small buck :D . The very few high end consoles still being made are custom built - nobody's doing a production run - and cost a few hundred thousand, minimum. There are some solid contenders in the mid-range: Audient, D&R, Euphonics, Neotek, Daking, Wunder, & a few others. They range from about $35,000 - $150,000 depending on # of channels, features & options. These are mostly custom built as well.

There are actually a lot of "live sound" boards being mass produced that blow the doors off most mass produced recording consoles - they just aren't set up for recording. Bummer!!

Your best bet for a great console at a reasonable cost is something used. The mid to high end consoles from 20 or 30 years ago are going at bargain basement prices - but you have to live in or near a major market (you're gonna need a good tech to keep 'em running well), and you MUST get a knowledgeable pro to check them out before committing to buy.

Otherwise you'll end up like me - paying over $90,000 for a solid mid-level brand new 32 channel desk. And I only feel comfortable with it because I already have a boatload of preamps, EQs and compressors to go with it.


....But I'm an old analog-head who just can't do "ITB" - & believe me, I've tried.

Scott
 
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