What's wrong with my home studio?

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grunter

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Okay, I need some help here. I am a songwriter (lyrics, melody & arrangements) with an okay voice. I'm interested in soliciting my music to other musicians & to work at placement of my music in t.v., movies, advertising, etc. My primary live recording entails recording my vocals with some occasional recording of acoustic & electric guitar. My primary emphasis is on getting excellent sounding vocals. I have an upper baritone to tenor range. The genres I'm targeting are adult contemporary, pop, light rock, folk/rock. I'm attempting to get a "John Mayerish" sounding vocal.

I record in the basement of my home, which is fairly quiet, but has no sound treatment. I hate to admit it, but I monitor primarily through fairly nice set of home stereo speakers & a pair of headphones (Sennheiser HD 520II).

My home recording studio consists of the archaic & the new: Dual Mac G4, music software sequencer, several sample libraries, several virtual instruments, MOTU 828 MKII, Yamaha 01V digital mixer, Kurzweil K2500R, outboard fx units (GSP 2101 & Studio400), dbx 166A (compressor, limiter, gate), Aphex 109 Parametric Equalizer, Digitech Studio Vocalist, Mackie 1202 mixer, Proteus MPS keyboard/synth, AKG C3000 mic, Sure Beta58 mic, Fender Strat & an Ovation Acoustic.

Here is what I think I'm missing, but I'm not sure what should take precedent: better mic(s), preamp, channel strip vs. preamp, monitors, sound treatment.

Mics I've been considering: dynamics: Sure SM7B & Sennheiser 441
condenser/tube: SP C1, Audio Technica's 4047, 4050, 4060, Soundelux U195

Preamps: FRM's RNP, Grace Design 101, (anything from Great River)

Channel Strips vs. Preamp: Focusrite ISA220, Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro, Safesound P1, Presonus Eureka

Monitors?
Sound treatment?

Given a $2,000 budget, I need to find out what else I need to buy and do to achieve my goals.
 
Assuming your mixes translate well on different systems... A U195 and a GRME1Nv would blow you away sonically. Do your mixes come out good? If not, you do need to start there. Your current mic selection leaves much to be desired. If need be buy some good monitors and the U195. I mix on the Mackie HR824's and my mixes do translate very well.


Good luck
Justin
 
grunter said:
Okay, I need some help here. I am a songwriter (lyrics, melody & arrangements) with an okay voice. I'm interested in soliciting my music to other musicians & to work at placement of my music in t.v., movies, advertising, etc. My primary live recording entails recording my vocals with some occasional recording of acoustic & electric guitar. My primary emphasis is on getting excellent sounding vocals. I have an upper baritone to tenor range. The genres I'm targeting are adult contemporary, pop, light rock, folk/rock. I'm attempting to get a "John Mayerish" sounding vocal.

I record in the basement of my home, which is fairly quiet, but has no sound treatment. I hate to admit it, but I monitor primarily through fairly nice set of home stereo speakers & a pair of headphones (Sennheiser HD 520II).

My home recording studio consists of the archaic & the new: Dual Mac G4, music software sequencer, several sample libraries, several virtual instruments, MOTU 828 MKII, Yamaha 01V digital mixer, Kurzweil K2500R, outboard fx units (GSP 2101 & Studio400), dbx 166A (compressor, limiter, gate), Aphex 109 Parametric Equalizer, Digitech Studio Vocalist, Mackie 1202 mixer, Proteus MPS keyboard/synth, AKG C3000 mic, Sure Beta58 mic, Fender Strat & an Ovation Acoustic.

Here is what I think I'm missing, but I'm not sure what should take precedent: better mic(s), preamp, channel strip vs. preamp, monitors, sound treatment.

Mics I've been considering: dynamics: Sure SM7B & Sennheiser 441
condenser/tube: SP C1, Audio Technica's 4047, 4050, 4060, Soundelux U195

Preamps: FRM's RNP, Grace Design 101, (anything from Great River)

Channel Strips vs. Preamp: Focusrite ISA220, Focusrite VoiceMaster Pro, Safesound P1, Presonus Eureka

Monitors?
Sound treatment?

Given a $2,000 budget, I need to find out what else I need to buy and do to achieve my goals.
Click to expand...

Exactly what problem/issue(s) are you having? Are you dissatisfied with your tracking results? Does your mixes translate equally well on other sound formats such as home stereo, personal c/d, car stereo, etc.? Are your mics or overall mic'ing techniques providing you with the results you need? Are you over-compressing? Etc,etc..etc.. B-4 going willy-nilly on new gear, identify what is the ailment your rec'dings may be suffering!
Obviously a pair of near-field, flat-response monitors are a must judging from what you have listed but posting what it is you're having issues with will certainly yield informative responses to what your probs are.
 
MISTERQCUE said:
Exactly what problem/issue(s) are you having? Are you dissatisfied with your tracking results? Does your mixes translate equally well on other sound formats such as home stereo, personal c/d, car stereo, etc.? Are your mics or overall mic'ing techniques providing you with the results you need? Are you over-compressing? Etc,etc..etc.. B-4 going willy-nilly on new gear, identify what is the ailment your rec'dings may be suffering!
Obviously a pair of near-field, flat-response monitors are a must judging from what you have listed but posting what it is you're having issues with will certainly yield informative responses to what your probs are.
Click to expand...

Musical5 & MISTERQCUE: Thanks for feedback.
I've recorded & listened to my music on various sound formats. I've recorded with and without the vocals as well as acappella. The mixes minus the vocals sound fine, mixes with the vocals and acappella do not sound good. I believe a key problem is my mic or mic'ing techniqe. Probably the mic & signal chain. I've experimented with various compression settings, eq settings, etc on various songs. Specifically, the vocals lack clarity or realism. They sound "muddied" and do not sit well in the mix.
 
I realize this might be a dumb question, Gunter ...

But I'm assuming you're an accomplished vocalist, and you're well-versed in proper vocal technique and breathing control?

If so, has your voice teacher ever commented on your annunciation? Have you played your mixes for him/her and asked for comments on your technique?

First, I'd try and narrow this down a little more until you can eliminate vocal technique as an issue. After that, perhaps the most important thing you can do is simply shop around for vocal mics that match well with your voice. I guess what really concerns me is that the AKG C3000 isn't what I'd call a muddy or inarticulate sounding mic ... which makes me wonder if it isn't something else ; i.e. are you annunciating your words? Are you singing straight in to the mic, or are you turning away slightly to look at lyrics (this is actually a major problem I have with some vocalists) ? Is your room properly treated? Are you aware of the effects of proximity to the mic, and are you making the necessary adjustments to minimize proximity effect?
 
I'd spend at least half the cash on room treatment and proper monitors first. Then decide if you think you still need a new preamp or mic. I could be that proper monitoring and treatment would be enough to help you hear what might be lacking at the tracking stage.
 
vestast said:
I'd spend at least half the cash on room treatment and proper monitors first. Then decide if you think you still need a new preamp or mic. I could be that proper monitoring and treatment would be enough to help you hear what might be lacking at the tracking stage.
Click to expand...

What he said.

Monitors and acoustic treatment go hand in hand; so do mic and preamps. You'll of course notice a difference upgrading only one of each pair, but it's not until you bring both up to the next level that you'll get dramatically improved results. Right now your C3000 and the pres in the mixers are on about the same level, and should give very usable results.
 
The Shure beta58 is their bottom of the line budget vocal mic. That mic is probably not doing much for you. At the very least upgrade that to an SM58. The AKG 3000 is also not their best mic.

So I would suggest getting yourself a very good vocal mic, a plan you already seem to have in mind. If you want a John Mayer-ish sound you might want to try and find out what mics he records with. But really the best thing would be to try a bunch of mics out on your own voice.

As far as preamps, the Grace 101 would be a good choice. Also look at the Groove Tubes BRICK. You'd also be pretty safe with a Great River. If you plan on spending around $800-1,000 for a single channel preamp, you'll get some great quality that will make a difference.

Of the channel strips you mention, only the ISA220 stands out to me. I don't know the P1. The others I do know are not at the level of the Focusrite ISA type quality.

The musical styles you are wanting to do would definitely benefit from a clean and detailed mic and preamp combination. So I think you are going in the right direction there.

If you can find a good mic/preamp pairing for $1,500, then I would highly suggest you spend the other $500 on the best pair of powered nearfield reference monitors you can find for that price. You've got to get off those home stereo monitors.
 
Ahhh.. isn't the Beta 8 the $150ish decent sounding dynamic mic (used primarily for live sound)? Maybe you are thinking of the PG58? Regardless...

Decent monitors will help. I've read great things about the Event TR8's. They are powered and about $500 for the pair.

A channel strip may or may not be necessary. A Pre amp will help. I've been using a Safe Sound P1 ($500), and I love it. Nice Pre, decent compression, and the expander helps as well (if you tend to get some background noise(e.g. incidently tapping the mic stand, vehicles driving by, etc.)). Plus for digital recording the limiter is a nice feature. Set it, forget it - and no more digital clipping. A bonus!

Mic's are a personal choice. Different voices will sound better or worse through the same mic. I picked up a Shure KSM44. My friend came over. He sounded great through it (lower voice - kinda Jim Croce/James Taylorish), I didn't. If you can, try before you buy. Or buy from some place that has a lenient return policy (AMS has a 45 day return for example). I found I like the MXL V69 tube mic. Sounds good on my voice.

Some people don't EQ during recording. It comes down to knowing your performer (in this case - you!). For me, I know my own voice is seriously mid heavy, so I knock out some mid-range during recording, and end up knocking more off while mixing. It makes a world of difference. Though, to be honest, my voice still stinks. I've been using the DBX242 parametric EQ. It's about $100 used on eBay.

And finally, don't overlook the room you are singing in - it can make a world of difference. Placement of the mic in relation to the ceiling, walls (especially a wall directly behind you) and the mic itself can all impact the recorded sound. I added homemade ceiling 'clouds' overtop of my 'live' area (as well as my control rom). Just something to help reduce some natural 'reverb'. Also I never sing with a wall directly behind me. I've found it can cause problems in the recorded sound.
Some techno types can probably get into sound wave analysis, frequencies killing/offsetting/cancelling each other, whatever. But the short of it is try singing from different locations and see if it helps/hurts. Maybe add some acoustic panels, not for sound proofing purposes, but for room conditioning. Basically you want your voice going directly through the mic and want to reduce/eliminate the reflections off the surrounding walls/ceiling also entering the mic.

Best of luck!
-Krag
 
Right, I was thinking of the PG58, sorry about that. Got the model names confused.
 
Thanks again to all who have given me feedback on my post.

I wanted to ask a few more follow up questions:

1. Would a dynamic mic be better to use if I am unable to create better sound treatment in my home studio?

2. Since my primary live recording need is for vocals, what are some more economical ways of creating better sound treatment in this area. Specifically, I was wondering about creating some sort of quasi "vocal booth".

3. Is it true that a condenser mic is generally better to do vocal studio recording vs. a dynamic? If so, what are the reasons?

4. What are people's thoughts about high end channel strips vs. getting separate components (preamp, eq, compressor)? An example might be Focusrite's ISA 220 vs. something like Great River's ME-1NV + a compressor + an eq.
 
Honestly moniters matter. They were the first big purchase I made and they really help you learn how to mix, identify probelms and etc. Room treatment is big as well, but being able to hear what should be comming out is important. Some argue that treating a room is just as important as the moniters.... I did notice much better sound by placing my setup in a way that is in the center of a wall balanced between two walls. So it is not bullshit at all. I have a fairly large room, with 18 feet behind me so I don't worry too much about the sound reflecting back.

Of course a bitching mic pre and a good mic blows everything out of the water. You can easily spend $1500 on the mic pre alone and another $1500 for a mic. The moniters I got, Genelec 1031A's used from this local guy off ebay kick ass. These retail for like $4,500 new or something ridiculous. I used to use my moms moniters, they lasted almost 10 years before I blew the woofers by overdriving them too much and killing the drivers.

That is the thing about purchasing moniters, don't buy the little puny ones if you are going to play the sound at 90db most of the time. I mean mine have 8 inch drivers and it is really a shame, because i have seen then genelec 1032A's for $2,100 now that house a 10inch driver.

Oh well, the mackie 824's have a 8 inch driver and compared to my genelecs, the bass is fine but the highs lack detail and sound like shit compared to genelecs. They sound tinny and lack clarity in comparison. I used these Tannoy moniters at school at they sound much better then the mackie 824. That company blue sky makes a good moniter package for cheap, at least I think it is better than the mackie. Of course, Adam makes the best studio moniters from what I hear, but you better have a lot more than $2,000.

I bought my moniters thinking they will last 20 years+. My moms moniters I used lasted 12 years with me blowing the shit out of them for the last 4 years. So the investment is just how serious you are really.
 
Fluxburn:
Thanks for the info on monitors and sound treatment. I'm sold on needing monitors. I'll be including them in my purchase.
 
If the basement for the bottom that is excellent for the bass. You want to place the setup in the middle of a wall, about 4 feet back or so. This way the bass will reflect off the back wall and hit you right where you mix. You actually are supposed to measure all the distances but you can really hear the difference where you place your moniters. Hey you can get buy with a normal preamp on a mackie mixer or a motu unit, rme unit, or digidesign mbox for now. I don't have the links for sound treatment and moniter placement anywhere, maybe some expert in the field will chime in and give you a link.
 
Monitors need air space around them to develop their sound.Also being away from wall surfaces of any kind cuts down on particular frequency reflections.If you are in a small area with low ceilings,then you are going to want to trap the corners and the opposite wall at the ceiling joinings,this is where bass buildup occurs most and could be the source of you 'muddiness'.Accurate monitors will tell the story much better than stereo speakers.Stereo speakers are made to sound 'nice' whereas monitors are meant to give an accurate representation of the sounds present so you can manipulate these sounds into a mix.Accurate is not always flattering,nor should it be.In choosing monitors,take representative recordings that you personally know well and play them on the dealers choices.Move around in the listening environment as position has a lot to do with monitors accuracy.Never play louder than your room can bear...you will never have a mix that translates.My favorite monitors are Genelecs.I have a small space and mix on nearfields with a sub.Gene 1029's and the 1081 sub.They give me translatable mixes everywhere I go.I am not a fan of monitors that use a passive radiator to enhance the bass.824 Mackies have one.Not good....as always YMMV.
 
grunter said:
Here is what I think I'm missing, but I'm not sure what should take precedent:
Click to expand...
Monitors. Otherwise you can't hear what is sounds like. :) After that is't all a matter of finding the weak link in the chain and eliminating it.
 
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