what's wrong with a heated disscussion?
- Thread starter giraffe
- Start date
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
[reply withdrawn after realizing that this thread was a sucker trap intended to result in heated discussion] 
G.
G.
Last edited:
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
As long as they keep the noise down and I can sleep, I don't care.
Some people grow up in environments where everyone stands around and salutes one another, telling each other how smart and good-looking the other one is. For these people, the site of a heated discussion can often appear on the surface to be ugly and confrontational.
So I think it's really more of cultural thing. If you were an alien, for example, and you were to visit the planet earth and observe it for an afternoon, and decided to take in a good American football game ... you would probably think football was a barbaric sport, or an all-out act of warfare.
To the people playing it, it's a game. People who observe spirited internet debates often make the same misinterperatation. It's easy for an onlooker to mistake them for much more than what they really are. To the participants, it's like a full-contact sport, only no one gets hurt and you can always shut the computer off and have a beer or a cup of tea if you let yourself get too carried away with it. Something that too often gets over-looked.
The problem with that is that it's very hard for some people to do. They want to walk away from it, but they can't. It's human nature to enjoy a good fight, or to stop and look at a car wreck. It's a programmed response. The person complaining about the conflict is every bit as much the guilty party. It's like the guy who grabs a box of popcorn and finds the most comfortable seat ... all the while screaming: "This is horrible! It's an outrage! Could you pass the popcorn, please? Oh, and could you move over just a hair to right? You're blocking my view. Thanks."
So I think it's really more of cultural thing. If you were an alien, for example, and you were to visit the planet earth and observe it for an afternoon, and decided to take in a good American football game ... you would probably think football was a barbaric sport, or an all-out act of warfare.
To the people playing it, it's a game. People who observe spirited internet debates often make the same misinterperatation. It's easy for an onlooker to mistake them for much more than what they really are. To the participants, it's like a full-contact sport, only no one gets hurt and you can always shut the computer off and have a beer or a cup of tea if you let yourself get too carried away with it. Something that too often gets over-looked.
The problem with that is that it's very hard for some people to do. They want to walk away from it, but they can't. It's human nature to enjoy a good fight, or to stop and look at a car wreck. It's a programmed response. The person complaining about the conflict is every bit as much the guilty party. It's like the guy who grabs a box of popcorn and finds the most comfortable seat ... all the while screaming: "This is horrible! It's an outrage! Could you pass the popcorn, please? Oh, and could you move over just a hair to right? You're blocking my view. Thanks."
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
There is a difference between heated discussions however and flaming/trolling. One is a debate between people passionate about a subject and serves a constructive end. The other a disruptive "discussion" intended to feed someones ego and serves no constructive purpose. Gearslutz went through this recently as well as this forum not long before. The end result is that people with constructive input just tend to leave and this ruins an otherwise great place to learn and and discuss topics of mutual interest.
Yes, one can look away or "turn it off" in the same way that you can delete spam or change the channel when a commercial comes on. It doesn't make it any less annoying or disruptive to the original purpose.
There are of course "grey" areas like a circular debate among passionate participants that never end however educational. Like an M.C. Escher drawing they can be intriguing, but there is a point where one has to move on.
Yes, one can look away or "turn it off" in the same way that you can delete spam or change the channel when a commercial comes on. It doesn't make it any less annoying or disruptive to the original purpose.
There are of course "grey" areas like a circular debate among passionate participants that never end however educational. Like an M.C. Escher drawing they can be intriguing, but there is a point where one has to move on.
PhiloBeddoe
New member
Well it's like -10F in Chicago right now, so I'm up for a heated anything.
Seriously though, heated is fine if there are valid points made on both sides, but when it degenerates to name calling or starts going way off topic then it's non-productive. I personally get a lot more mileage from an engineering tip than a virtual pissing contest.
Also "heat" is not a substitute for quality. Some people think that being obnoxious will somehow make them right.
There was a thread on another forum where someone asked about how Nickelback's latest album was produced. The guys who actually recorded and mixed it graciously posted on the thread only to be assaulted with a bunch of "Nickelback sucks" chanting. Now I kinda think Nickelback sucks too, but these guys are top flight engineers and had nothing to do with writing and performing the songs. I thought it was a real shame how they were treated and that the thread was cut short due to this immaturity. Amazingly some of the same people who said "Nickelback sucks" also said "...but they're albums sound pretty good". Unbelievable. An example of these kinds of forums at their worst.
In general though these forums are full of good stuff.
Seriously though, heated is fine if there are valid points made on both sides, but when it degenerates to name calling or starts going way off topic then it's non-productive. I personally get a lot more mileage from an engineering tip than a virtual pissing contest.
Also "heat" is not a substitute for quality. Some people think that being obnoxious will somehow make them right.
There was a thread on another forum where someone asked about how Nickelback's latest album was produced. The guys who actually recorded and mixed it graciously posted on the thread only to be assaulted with a bunch of "Nickelback sucks" chanting. Now I kinda think Nickelback sucks too, but these guys are top flight engineers and had nothing to do with writing and performing the songs. I thought it was a real shame how they were treated and that the thread was cut short due to this immaturity. Amazingly some of the same people who said "Nickelback sucks" also said "...but they're albums sound pretty good". Unbelievable. An example of these kinds of forums at their worst.
In general though these forums are full of good stuff.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
This is a forum, not a game. These are real people, not characters in an online role-playing environment. And the purpose is topical information exchange, not psychological stress release from the real world. This IS the real world.
If someone wants to get their ya-yas out in fiction land, that's what Dungeons and Dragons or The Sims Online or the local strip club are for. If someone needs to vent their anger from the "real world", there are group help forums and consulors and health clubs/gyms for that.
I'm all for good, honest, vigorous debate. But when it becomes "heated", no good ever comes of it. Once that line is crossed, no issues are ever resolved, friendships are damaged and political polarization is fomented. All that remains is adolescent entertainment for the ambulance chasers, arsonists and other sicko vouyers. And to those vouyers I would pass on the following advice:
P.S. to Masteringhouse: You'd better get your sleep now. Your state will become the final Armageddon of heated discussions for the Democratic primary in a few weeks. Lucky you; all those tens of millions of dollars spent on telemarketing calls and television commercials, just for you!
Sleep well 
.
If someone wants to get their ya-yas out in fiction land, that's what Dungeons and Dragons or The Sims Online or the local strip club are for. If someone needs to vent their anger from the "real world", there are group help forums and consulors and health clubs/gyms for that.
I'm all for good, honest, vigorous debate. But when it becomes "heated", no good ever comes of it. Once that line is crossed, no issues are ever resolved, friendships are damaged and political polarization is fomented. All that remains is adolescent entertainment for the ambulance chasers, arsonists and other sicko vouyers. And to those vouyers I would pass on the following advice:
G.
P.S. to Masteringhouse: You'd better get your sleep now. Your state will become the final Armageddon of heated discussions for the Democratic primary in a few weeks. Lucky you; all those tens of millions of dollars spent on telemarketing calls and television commercials, just for you!
Sleep well .
TerraMortim
New member
nothing, but most people around here are too retarded to handle one.
TerraMortim
New member
[reply withdrawn after realizing that this thread was a sucker trap intended to result in heated discussion]
G.
FUCK YOU! ARSE HOLE DIP... ohhh..what? lol damn!
TerraMortim
New member
they done took the jennis place forum away...and I never got to see how the christians reacted to my last post DOH! It was like... just before the climax and then...gone...DOH!
Here's a fun fact about the word "DOH!" which actually is now in the dictionary. The idea for homer to say the word "doh" was a tip of the hat to old Laurel and Hardy movies, in which Jim Finlayson, who was in nearly all of the Laurel and Hardy short films (the short scottish guy with the hilarious double take) would always say that when he was getting frustrated.
now back to our regularly scheduled dick waving fest.
YOU SHITBAG ****SU...... DOH!
Here's a fun fact about the word "DOH!" which actually is now in the dictionary. The idea for homer to say the word "doh" was a tip of the hat to old Laurel and Hardy movies, in which Jim Finlayson, who was in nearly all of the Laurel and Hardy short films (the short scottish guy with the hilarious double take) would always say that when he was getting frustrated.
now back to our regularly scheduled dick waving fest.
YOU SHITBAG ****SU...... DOH!
TerraMortim
New member
as they say..."some like it hot" ...then again, some people like to be shit upon by their sexual partners... ah well..time to eat an ice cream cone.
Or they just move on to another thread.
If you really want to see interesting people leave .... just start telling them what they can and can't post. At least a few "audio anarchists" could attest to this.
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
Or they just move on to another thread.
For a while, but if it's rampant another forum. Trust, I've seen it happen to many a good forum that went from great info, monkeys throwing turds, to ghost towns.
I've made too many friends here to give up without a least some bit of hesitation, but there are others who's quality input I miss.
How about you?
giraffe
i love negative rep
"heated" not to be confused with "filled with assholes" mind you
some people just don't like being contradicted, and then don't want to talk.
hey, that's fine, just walk away.
you're never involved in anything on a forum that you didn't choose to be involved in, i guarantee it.
some people just don't like being contradicted, and then don't want to talk.
hey, that's fine, just walk away.
you're never involved in anything on a forum that you didn't choose to be involved in, i guarantee it.
masteringhouse
www.masteringhouse.com
I prefer to use anarchy as a last resort when a system is "broken" and you have no better option (or the lack of abilty to formulate a better option). As along as people treat each other with mutual respect no matter the level of experience, I see nothing broken here.
SouthSIDE Glen
independentrecording.net
A few observations about the recent push for "anarchy" in forums. All strictly personal observations, of course :
- It's (in general, there are exceptions) the "anarchists" who seem to take it the most personally and who have the shortest fuse. "Anarchy" is OK as long as it is imposed upon others and not imposed upon them *by* others. The sad, funny, thing is thes kids have no idea what REAL anarchy really means, and would be among the first ones to be eaten up and spit out like Bambi's mother in a real anarchy.
- Contrary to the opinion of many of those "anarchists" who have been on this BBS for a long time and gotten spoiled by their freedom from responsibility for their actions, the childish idea of hiding behind a fake personna so one can just throw all the rules of social public behavior away and act like a drunken asshole in a public forum is a very recent abnormality and not an accepted part of "the online culture". Some of us have been participating in online forums - public and private - since the days of the Byte Information Exchange (BIX) and Compuserve, and were ground floor user group activists on the Internet back when it was mainly in the domain of Archie and Veronica. Sure there are always going to be some assholes in any group, but it was never considered acceptable behavior, and the "anarchists" and assholes were usually the first ones to get booted.
Of course, that was back when when people were actually attracted to forums based upon the quality of the moderator. Dictator moderators had boards that didn't last very long or weren't very interesting, but the unmoderated boards were considered even worse, rather like "the bad part of town". The best boards were the ones actively moderated by hosts who knew how to take care of the assholes and posers and yet also took an active role in keeping the board interesting. Kind of like moderator as party host who knew how to direct the party and keep things rolling, yet knew they had to act as a bouncer as well to keep the party from getting completly out of control.
That art of quality moderation seems to have been largely lost or forgotten these days. "Moderated" has somehow turned into a bad word, and the words "free" and "responsible" have somehow become antonyms.
- There is a rather signifigant difference between the normal human nature of being facinated by the warehouse fire down the street, and the abnormal behavior of comitting arson in order to satisfy that facination. We all may slow down or stop to rubberneck the car accident as we drive by, but most of us don't purposely throw a case of ball bearings across the road in the hopes that maybe one will happen or purposely cut off the other driver to try and get them to spin out.
In the same way, it's normal for people to be - at least initially - attracted to a quality argument, but it's pretty abnormal and irresponsible for someone to hang around a public forum attempting to provoke or prolong them for their own amuesment.
G.
:- It's (in general, there are exceptions) the "anarchists" who seem to take it the most personally and who have the shortest fuse. "Anarchy" is OK as long as it is imposed upon others and not imposed upon them *by* others. The sad, funny, thing is thes kids have no idea what REAL anarchy really means, and would be among the first ones to be eaten up and spit out like Bambi's mother in a real anarchy.
- Contrary to the opinion of many of those "anarchists" who have been on this BBS for a long time and gotten spoiled by their freedom from responsibility for their actions, the childish idea of hiding behind a fake personna so one can just throw all the rules of social public behavior away and act like a drunken asshole in a public forum is a very recent abnormality and not an accepted part of "the online culture". Some of us have been participating in online forums - public and private - since the days of the Byte Information Exchange (BIX) and Compuserve, and were ground floor user group activists on the Internet back when it was mainly in the domain of Archie and Veronica. Sure there are always going to be some assholes in any group, but it was never considered acceptable behavior, and the "anarchists" and assholes were usually the first ones to get booted.
Of course, that was back when when people were actually attracted to forums based upon the quality of the moderator. Dictator moderators had boards that didn't last very long or weren't very interesting, but the unmoderated boards were considered even worse, rather like "the bad part of town". The best boards were the ones actively moderated by hosts who knew how to take care of the assholes and posers and yet also took an active role in keeping the board interesting. Kind of like moderator as party host who knew how to direct the party and keep things rolling, yet knew they had to act as a bouncer as well to keep the party from getting completly out of control.
That art of quality moderation seems to have been largely lost or forgotten these days. "Moderated" has somehow turned into a bad word, and the words "free" and "responsible" have somehow become antonyms.
- There is a rather signifigant difference between the normal human nature of being facinated by the warehouse fire down the street, and the abnormal behavior of comitting arson in order to satisfy that facination. We all may slow down or stop to rubberneck the car accident as we drive by, but most of us don't purposely throw a case of ball bearings across the road in the hopes that maybe one will happen or purposely cut off the other driver to try and get them to spin out.
In the same way, it's normal for people to be - at least initially - attracted to a quality argument, but it's pretty abnormal and irresponsible for someone to hang around a public forum attempting to provoke or prolong them for their own amuesment.
G.
We can debate this topic all day, but in the end, it's still all about the owner / moderator of the board -- Dragon in this case -- and the personality he wants the board to take on.
In his youth, Dragon was somewhat of an anarchist, and this board was one of the more interesting places to visit -- if for no other reason than the fact that it was unmoderated and uncensored.
As times changed, he started making this place in to something a little different. More advertising revenue meant some house cleaning was in order. Cat forums, substance abuse support, and even female advice forums started making their way in. It's all part of the "softer / nicer side" of Dave coming through ... and hence the board is now a reflection of that whole kumbaya spirit.
If all the niceness and sensitivity makes you cough up fur balls ... then there are other boards out there who's names I'm not at liberty to mention. But for now, it is his board, his domain and essentially his world.
In his youth, Dragon was somewhat of an anarchist, and this board was one of the more interesting places to visit -- if for no other reason than the fact that it was unmoderated and uncensored.
As times changed, he started making this place in to something a little different. More advertising revenue meant some house cleaning was in order. Cat forums, substance abuse support, and even female advice forums started making their way in. It's all part of the "softer / nicer side" of Dave coming through ... and hence the board is now a reflection of that whole kumbaya spirit.
If all the niceness and sensitivity makes you cough up fur balls ... then there are other boards out there who's names I'm not at liberty to mention.
But for now, it is his board, his domain and essentially his world.Good point, I agree. I stopped posting in "that" thread a while back because I could see that no matter how much I put into it, it wasn't going to be appreciated.
I am a great fan of the educational debate, however when someone takes the comments personally it's time to call it a day as the "argument" loses focus until gradually it becomes a slanging match.