What voulme level is best for selling on Itunes?

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Greg_L said:
Dude, that's what I've been saying all along. Literally, all along. This whole time. You argue just to argue.
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Oh stop accusing others for your own MO. Now you're just arguing, because I know that you're smart enough to know that you're quoting me out of context to make it sound like we're saying the same thing when in fact I was talking about something entirely different. That's what I call arguing just to argue.

I also call someone who says, "do what I say, and not what I do," - as you do because you have admitted on more than one occasion that you don't follow your own advice regarding loudness - arguing just to argue.

Come on, Greg, you know damn well that the only reason you do stuff like this is to try and get people agitated, because you thrive off of that feeling. Give it up already. It doesn't work when people know that's what you're up to.

G.
 
I also find it humorous the way you rant on about snobbishness when it's you being the snob all along. "You got to be loud to compete" is about as snobbish about loudness as one can get.

G.
 
Dude, you're always agitated. I don't have to try to get you riled up. You are a bitter, old, outdated, internet pro. You have your little fan-club, and that's cool, but it's the same old act any time anyone that you perceive as inferior to you dares to disagree with you. You go apeshit and off the beaten path and start making up totally irrelevant arguments and points to win some internet debate. Whatever. I'm sure you're a cool guy in real life. I don't understand why you refuse to be wrong online.

Anyway, I just used your own words. I didn't take them out of context. That's exactly what you said, which is what I've always said, and you totally contradicted your previous rants. That leads me to believe that we were always in agreement, which is what i suspected all along, and you argue just to argue. See above paragraph.

I don't give advice regarding loudness. I'm no mastering engineer. I don't pretend to be one either. I'm just a guy that home records - like most everyone in here. I'll put my home recordings up against anyone elses at any time. I do have a shitload of common sense though and I'm able to see and hear what's going on out in the meat world. As far as "mastering" goes, I generally tell people to do whatever they want - as long as it sounds good. If they wanna crush it, I'm fine with it, if they don't, I'm fine with it. I tell the truth though, and I tell it like it really is, and that they may wanna consider some loudness so they don't sound stupidly out of place. I don't make my points through a dumb idealism filter. You may not always agree with me, but I say what I mean and stand behind it because I'm being honest and the truth never changes. Most people don't make music for audiophiles. Molly Mallrat doesn't care about dynamics.
 
Greg_L said:
Greg wins. Over and out.
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Okay you win, Like anyone but you gives a shit.

This is one reason you make such a big fuss out "competing", because for you, everything has to be a competition. You are just so jealous that you feel you need to try and compete even on forums. It would be cute if you weren't a grown man. That just makes it pathetic.

So, OK, Greg. You win. If it makes you happy to believe you "win", even where there's no competition existing or even wanted, then OK, you "win". :rolleyes:

So congratulations for winning by being wrong.

G. (proud to lose this one)
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
The only MEs who support the Loudness wars are doing so out of self-preservation; because there's a huge market to be seized making a living out of making things louder,
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Greg_L said:
Dude, that's what I've been saying all along. Literally, all along. This whole time. You argue just to argue.
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There is a market to seize if you are a mastering engineer working on other people's stuff...A huge parade of people with the wrong idea asking for loudenation.

That applies to maybe a hand full of people on this board. There is no market to seize by making your own music loud.

Other people hire you to do a loudenation service for them on their song = you just made money

You loudenate your own song, or hire someone to loudenate it for you = you just damaged your song for no real reason
Everyone allegedly hates loudness,
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Yup. But as I always like to say, "loudness" is the wrong word. I love loudness...the type that comes from speakers pushing air. Digital audio squashed into oblivion is something else entirely than actual loudness...It could be soft as a whisper on playback for all anybody knows depending on the amp, speaker, and volume knob.
but it is a piece of the product that can't be left out.
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Sure it can. Don't do it. It's left out. Magic!
 
Down with compression, and loudness, and electric guitars, and horseless transportation!
 
I love how everything is hardcore black-and-white with you guys. There is no middle ground. So funny. :D
 
This whole argument is retarded anyway because there is nothing stopping every artist in the world from offering both a good and a stupid version for download.

Now if somebody would tell that to every artist in the world this nightmare might end.
 
Chibi Nappa said:
This whole argument is retarded anyway because there is nothing stopping every artist in the world from offering both a good and a stupid version for download.
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Right. I don't see why you guys get so angry over this.
 
Chibi Nappa said:
Dude, I LOVE this about movies. Quiet is supposed to be hard to hear and loud is supposed to be shocking and uncomfortable. That's why it's called quiet and loud instead of low medium and high medium. I live in a house with a few feet of yard between me and the neighbors so I can get away with the ruckus. For everybody else, every TV for the past 10 years has a heavy compressor built right it. Turn it on and your problems are over.
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A. My TV doesn't have an audio compressor built it despite being less than 10 years old.

B. Holy crap, you don't actually listen to TV through the TV speakers, do you?
 
Hmm
Dynamics in music = Good and more wonderful sounding
Dynamics in movies = bad and less wonderful sounding

Alright now the internet has made that determination for me, I'm off to buy 8 vintage 1176s so i can get the dratted dynamics out of my 7.1 home theater system

I wonder if I can sidechain my kids to them
 
Greg_L said:
What you audio snobs fail to grasp is that if loudness somehow wasn't important, it simply wouldn't be happening. It's totally not necessary and hurts the quality of the final product, bit it's done all the time every day anyway. Why is that?
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Exactly. It's a proven fact that louder sounds "better", all else being equal (or close enough to equal). People respond to it.
 
Chibi Nappa said:
Hell no. Big-ass Klipsch mid-fields.
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Whew, you had me worried.

I don't even pass audio through the TV, it's nothing but a video monitor. My receiver has a "Midnight" setting I will have to try for late night movie watching.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
Exactly. It's a proven fact that louder sounds "better", all else being equal (or close enough to equal). People respond to it.
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That only holds true for actual sound reaching our ears, not data on a disc. No matter how "loud" the disc is, the listener wants to hear it at level "X". So he turns the knob until his ears tell him it is at level "X". The resulting sound in the room (or headphones) is the same whether or not the song wav was brick-flat or had all the headroom in the world. So you didn't make it louder, you just made it smaller. So you don't get the "louder is better" benefit.
 
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