what type of Reel to reel did the Beatles use???

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Flangerhans said:
Really, the gear used at that time was good, but the stuff we have access to today even in the smallest studios is less noisy, more powerful, and easier to use for the most part. My own opinion is that the technology peaked about 1974, but a good argument can be made that our modern goodies are the best in the history of recorded music.

I think your point is well taken in that the level of performance of inexpensive, home audio recording electronics has really improved over time. Really, studio acoustics and recording knowledge, skill and practice, not gear, are what separate the "men from the boys" these days.

However, I'm not so sure that a lot of this digital gear with consumer level analog electronics and low voltage rails with limited input and output levels is really anywhere close to the performance of the mature, high performing electronics, either tube or discrete transistor, in those older machines.

As far as being easy to use, when you are using some gear that really can work with +4 dBu reference levels with plenty of headroom and then you have to incorporate this consumer level gear, perhaps a firewire or other digital interface, it makes things less convenient. And working with old, quality analog gear and VU meters goes a long way toward developing good skills and intuition in level setting practices.

I read questions from so many younger folk starting out now with cheap digital stuff and no real concept of proper level practices. They think they should set levels based upon where peaks show up relative to 0 dBFS! Peaks tell you nothing about perceived loudness, but that's what you see in the little digital meters in your DAW, so that's what you use. If you actually understand level practices, you can find digital meters that will show you peak and RMS levels, but so many newbies are clueless on such matters. They would be better off starting with a Teac 4-track.

I do think that some of the better gear made today is equal to and in some ways better than even the best of the older gear. Of course, that's if you strive for a very clean and quiet sound, not a thick, meaty, loud sound. Wide tape still totally rules in that arena.

However, there is a very dark side to the whole development of even the larger format analog machines, such as 24 track. That dark side is the shift in studio practice away from live tracking in a hurry by skilled musicians who can really play to single part tracking over long periods of time as the normal practice. There is often a benefit to having to work within limitations of time and available tracks and to playing music as an ensemble. The music ends up more authentic.

I also find that so much music these days is so obviously the product of working one part at a time in a totally beat enslaved digital environment where everything is synced to the same, repetitive beat. One of the joys of analog tape is that it doesn't try to force you into beat slavery, it just records what you play.

Of course, societal factors like media consolidation and Clear Channel are much more corrosive to the music scene. Also, there's too much of a self-satisfied, individual, consumer focus to all of our existence these days for there to really be the sense of rebellion that fueled much of the music scene in the 60s and early 70s. The most recent real expression of that rebellion has been in the rap world, but it too is pretty much corrupted and soulless at this point. And digital media allows free swapping and copying to a degree that music as a commercial enterprise may never recover from (not that I really care that much about music as product instead of art, anyway). Not that I'm cynical or anything! ;)

My apologies... this turned rather into a rant. Well, I feel better.

Cheers,

Otto
 
I keep starting all these awesome threads and no one is adding to my rep...I should be higher than 27...c'mon...
 
ofajen said:
6) The first 16 track machines were created in 1968. I have no idea when Abbey Road had such a machine available. That is too many tracks! :)
Sometime between 1971 and 1972 according to Pink Floyd lore.
Atom Heart Mother was done on 8-track in 1970 and the machine was sufficiently new that they weren't allowed to do any tape edits because EMI were afraid it would ruin the machine.
Dark Side of the Moon was recorded 16-track in 1972-3. Meddle was recorded in 1971 partly in Abbey Road, but mostly in AIR studios because they needed 16-track facilities and Abbey Road didn't have them.
 
George Martin founded AIR Studios.

How's that for lore?! :eek: ;)
 
A Reel Person said:
How's that for lore?! :eek: ;)

I'm not sure it counts as lore, since you can read all about it on the AIR Studios website. :)

Cheers,

Otto
 
jpmorris said:
Sometime between 1971 and 1972 according to Pink Floyd lore.
Atom Heart Mother was done on 8-track in 1970 and the machine was sufficiently new that they weren't allowed to do any tape edits because EMI were afraid it would ruin the machine.

This sounds a bit dodgy to me without some more concrete evidence. Abbey Road techs have always been conservative and cautious, but I can't imagine anyone thinking that edits would ruin any pro tape machine. The M-23s were built like tanks and everything is easily replaced, cleaned, repaired, etc. Maybe they were concerned it would ruin the integrity of the tape and the recording? That seems more likely.

Cheers,

Otto
 
ofajen said:
This sounds a bit dodgy to me without some more concrete evidence. Abbey Road techs have always been conservative and cautious, but I can't imagine anyone thinking that edits would ruin any pro tape machine. The M-23s were built like tanks and everything is easily replaced, cleaned, repaired, etc. Maybe they were concerned it would ruin the integrity of the tape and the recording? That seems more likely.
That may well be the case - this was remembered from a documentary shown around 1994, which is why I'm presenting it as 'lore' rather than fact. If you are sufficiently curious, I can probably get you the exact wording.

Anyway, for whatever reason, they weren't allowed to cut the tape on the 8-track because the technicians didn't know what would happen and this, supposedly, is the reason that the orchestrations and the choir had to be done pretty much in a single take... of a 23-minute song.
 
MartyMcFly said:
But anyways...Does anyone know just what model they were using from sgt pepper on? i know that during The White Album (who knew the beatles were racists) they started using 8-track...
But Im interested in was sgt pepper 4 track on 1 inch tape or 2 inch tape was TWA 8-track on 2 inch tape and what model was it...

hey just in case anyone wants really good documentation about the beatles, i recommend you check out, www.recordingthebeatles.com the book is the size of a case that holds a 2" reel of tape. over five hundred pages of all the gear, personnel, rooms, tape machines, etc. i sound like a billboard.

abbey road got four studer j37s in 1965. and two were immediately put to use, alongside the "dreaded" (as described by geoff emerick) telefunken machines that they had recorded most of their earlier tracks on., they were also used sporadically after the 3m 8-track arrived. "come together" was started on the j37 then reduced onto the 3m.
so, actually, the tape machines were actually used before sgt. pepper. and abbey road resisted switching to 8-track because the studers were so good at ADT... (think vocals on a day in the life, my favorite sound on the album) when the 3m m23 first arrived in may 1968 and was demonstrated to george martin alongside the studer j37s, the biggest problem to him was that it did not have simultaneous sync and repro systems, which was critical for ADT. hence it was not put into use until it could be modified.

by "abbey road," though, other factors definitely change their sound, especially the solid-state mixing console they ran everything through, as opposed to the valve consoles they had done most of their work on.
 
If Come Together was started on a J37 that implies they were still using the 4 track machines instead of the 8 track - yes/no???
 
I'm pretty sure they were using the 8 track already during the White album. I'll have to look it up but I thought they had already way retired the 4 track by Abby Road.
 
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According to "The Beatles Recording Sessions" by Mark Lewisohn They were using an 8 track for most if not all of The White Album...funny how that book as great as it is doesnt delve too much into the machines that they used...
 
I think was just not following Chester's thoughts accurately. I thought he was saying that they were using an 8 track for Pepper. My mistake.

I'd like to say I agree with Otto. It seems as though most of those artists making 'records' today don't know how (or refuse to) lay things down in one complete performance as a group/band. It's very much a bits and pieces situation - or at least that's the way it seems with all the cut and paste, flying in good vocal takes from chorus to chorus, using samples and the like. Perhaps there are just fewer accomplished performers today than 20, 30 or 40 years ago in pop/rock music. I don't know, but there is a definite vibe that occurs on stuff when everyone is playing at the same time as opposed to laying down parts one at a time days or weeks apart.

I'm sure the money aspect of things falls in there somewhere. Perhaps it's faster to do it the way it's done today so often as the artists can't pull off a full performance without taking many takes to do so. Or perhaps it's the lable's bean counters that balk at paying for the time it takes to pull off a good performance in the studio. There are a lot of great musicians out there. It's unfortunate that restrictions of an economic nature has to enter into the equation so much of the time.
 
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THX1136 said:
If Come Together was started on a J37 that implies they were still using the 4 track machines instead of the 8 track - yes/no???

hey guys just to be clear, the 4 track wasn't used a lot after the 3m eight track was modified to abbey road standards (sporadically as quoted from the Recording The Beatles book.) especially by the white album they started making most of their work on 8 track. But seeing how abbey road was constantly in use by different groups besides the beatles, the old studers would be called into action if the 3m 8tracks were in use in either of the three abbey road studio rooms.

seriously i reccommend the RTB book for all you guys, its got some amazing insight into their production. great detail into personnel, setups in rooms, varispeed, and the tape effects, etc. my favorite part is reading how they monitored most of their recording on only one altec speaker.

sean
 
crazychester said:
seriously i reccommend the RTB book for all you guys, its got some amazing insight into their production. great detail into personnel, setups in rooms, varispeed, and the tape effects, etc. my favorite part is reading how they monitored most of their recording on only one altec speaker.

sean

I've got it. Great book.
 
As far as I remember, Abbey Road was started on a 4 track (I want you) and they "liberated" the 3M 8 track from the testing lab as it wasn't qualified for use at the time. This was the story from Lewison's book.

It sounds about right if you listen to the recordings after "I want You (She's so heavy)"
 
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